Do you have any specific ship and year in mind to model? There were major changes made to the FLETCHER class DDE's throughout the 1960's. Three units were upgraded to a FRAM II DASH version. The Mk 32 torpedo tube mounts and new electronics were upgraded on several units prior to being decommissioned. Also, the DDE's and Fleet DD's were rapidly being decommissioned in the late 1960's.
I have a few images of 1960's era ex-DDE's I have scanned at NHHC. Another source I refer to are period Reference books like Jane's Fight Ships and US Ships and Aircraft. I have a fairly large library of these type books, but I won't scan images from them for posting due to copyrighting. Here are representative images of the three configurations I'm aware of in use the 1960's.
Radford (DD-446) converted to FRAM II
O'Bannon (DD-450) the only DDE to retain the trainable hedgehog and is representative of polemast units
Eaton (DD-510) representative of the non-FRAM II with the tripod mast
Thanks for the great response. WOW those were some of the best DDE pictures I've ever seen! The ships I have in mind to build have been narrowed down to Eaton(510),Taylor(468), Fletcher (445) and O'Bannon. Mid to late 60s configuration with Mk 32 triple tubes. I will be using DDE drawings from Raven's Fletcher-Class book. Those drawings are a little bit vague on various spot though.
Once again thanks for the excellent pics.
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Hi all. I'd love to build a model of the USS Hoel - preferably in 1/144. Nautilus have this option on their decal sheet, but the Hoel was a square bridge and the Revell kit is round bridge yes? AFAIK no-one has produced a conversion, but I would love to be proved wrong.
The other alternative is the Trumpeter 1/350 The Sullivans, but does anyone produce the decals for me to do the Hoel?
I believe that Nautilus is (was) working on conversion sets for the FLETCHER 1/144 scale kit including square-bridges. It isn't clear to me if Revell plans on doing additional versions of the FLETCHER class, including the open square-bridge. I have read of rumors that is the case, but have no knowledge about it actually happening ... much less know which versions. Depending on how accurate and which time period you wish to model HOEL (DD-533) ... my guess is at the time of her loss ... you would need to revise parts of the Trumpeter kit (bulwarks that make up the tubs). When first completed HOEL had Mk 49 directors, but by the time of her loss she had them replaced with the Mk 51 directors.
Very nice photos you just posted. You don't happen to have a larger version of: "DD533x11-25Oct43" the Hoel? I'm very interested in the subtle shading/bleaching/staining of the MS-21 version for my 144 Fletcher.
I have been looking for some photos of the bridge wing layout for the early Fletchers. I think they were similar to the Bensons, but I haven't found any really good detail shots. I'm working on my Revell 1/144 Fletcher, which doesn't provide any detail.
I don't have or recall overhead images of the bridge area on EARLY FLETCHERS. The early ships were built on the East Coast and neither Boston or New York Navy Yards took overhead shots of ships very often or at a high angle. I have tons of profile views and some aerial views that are too grainy to pick out bridge details. These early ships did end up being modified at Mare Island Navy Yard, where the photographer there loved to climb cranes. Here are a couple of images of La Vallette (DD-448) taken after her repairs and modification to the five twin 40-mm mounts configuration taken at MINY on 19 July 1943. I don't know how many if any changes were made to the bridge wings layout, but La Vallette was about the earliest Fletcher class unit to be updated at MINY and then did not highlight any changes (circles) on the bridge.
idgeewidgee wrote:I have been looking for some photos of the bridge wing layout for the early Fletchers. I think they were similar to the Bensons, but I haven't found any really good detail shots. I'm working on my Revell 1/144 Fletcher, which doesn't provide any detail.
One difference that shows up in Rick's photos is the fact that on the "round-bridge" Fletchers, the pilothouse and the portion of the wings outboard of it were slightly higher than the part aft of that. Notice the step in the deck. This step was not present on the "round-bridge" Benson/Gleaves DD's.
I'm building the 144 Fletcher and until recently I really didn't have a specific ship in mind. Rick Davis helped pin my few desires down to only a couple of candidates and I have chosen the Fletcher herself DD-445.
My desires were of an early round bridge in MS-21 with at least 2 40mm Bofors and no midships 40mms Update.
I'm looking for any DD-445 USS Fletcher photos of the deck (hopefully from above - fat chance) from Nov 1942 - the first half of 1943 (she was upgraded at MI Jul-Sep 43). I really would like to nail down her configuration before that upgrade. I can always use artistic license but would like not to do that.
I don't mean to clog this thread but i will post "stuff" that is relevant to the group as a whole.
With the help of others, my Fletcher build is progressing, at least the research portion. I plan on doing a version for the timeframe of 30 November 1942.
The Fletcher at that time had 2 40mm Bofers mounts, one on the fantail and one in a raised platform between 53 and 54 mounts.
Here is a photo of the fantail mount on the Fletcher:
Here is a photo of the O'Bannon's raised tub. I am assuming that this is the correct tub for the Fletcher also? Was there a Director located in the "empty" raised tub also?
Yes that is the same tub used on FLETCHER. NICHOLAS, O'BANNON, and CHEVALIER were equipped with the quad 1.1-in mount as seen in this photo. Even though these early FLETCHERS were built by two different builders, BIW and Federal, the drawings were supplied by Gibbs and Cox and both groups of ships were nearly identical. This didn't hold nearly as well with the Bethlehem built yards or some of the other builders that followed or as changes started to pile on top of each other.
The director intended for all these ships was the Mk 49 director. But development took longer than assumed and wasn't available. A simple Mk 44 director was used on some larger units to control quad 1.1-in mounts and planned as a temporary substitute on these 1.1-in equipped units, but never was used on FLETCHERS as far as I can tell. The Mk 51 director was actually a stop-gap development utilizing the Mk 14 sight designed for use on 20-mm mounts. NICHOLAS and O'BANNON completed and departed for the Pacific (in August 1942) without ANY DIRECTOR for the quad 1.1-in mount. The quad 1.1-in mount only had local control ... point and shoot with your fingers crossed. CHEVALIER had a Mk 51 director installed in October 1942 prior to going to North Africa. NICHOLAS and O'BANNON received Mk 51 directors sometime while in the Pacific ... I don't know the date and I looked for it in the official records ... but were installed by January 1943. FLETCHER and the other early FLETCHERS received the Mk 51 director with their twin 40-mm mounts until the Mk 49 directors became available (in limited numbers and wasn't installed on all ships).
I just bought Warships Perspectives Fletcher, Gearing & Sumner Class Destroyers because I got it at a reduced price. Overall it isn't a very good book and has mostly poorly reproduced photos (including some horrible digital reprinted shots). On page 4 there is a good shot of USS Nicholas DD-449 from the port bow. Under the searchlights next to the aft stack is what is clearly a 5"38 gun house. Explain that if you can.
I'm also looking for more detailed photos of the gear on the bridge wings. Any references that show this detail?
The Warship Perspective volume for the FLETCHER, SUMNER, and GEARING class had printing problems for the first printing run. I waited to buy a copy until there was a second run and kept checking copies I came across. But, I ended up not getting it and I have no idea if they ever did print any more copies. It is out-of-print now.
Are you looking for views of the individual equipment on the bridge or more views of the bridge layout that isn't shown in the views I posted above? I have a series of views of repeat GLEAVES class destroyer bridge views showing equipment, but the layouts are different.
Trust us there is nothing magical going on ... these photos were taken at the same time on or about 28 May 1942 when NICHOLAS ran speed trials as the FIRST FLETCHER class destroyer off Rockland, Maine. The ship is going at a high speed and the photo is taken from a low angle (likely a small boat). Look at the 5-in mount in relation to the deckhouse behind it where the quad 1.1-in mount is installed. Now look at the other photos taken on the SAME day. If you have never been on a FLETCHER class destroyer, the sheer is really pretty steep from stern to the bow. Perspective can be a funny thing at times.
Building my first model in about 20 years. Using the Trumpeter USS The Sullivan's and some PE to make the USS Van Valkenburgh. Really should have picked something more simple.
On my display I want to have the ships Coat of Arms and the Coat of Arms for DesRon 58.
Problem is, cannot find a pic of either. Tried NavSource, Destroyer History even the on line DOD photo archive. No luck at all. Was referred to this site. Can one of you help?
