At 'Em Arizona Fans!

[dsk]

Yup, I noticed that even the aviation fuel line moved around during the ship's history. People who aren't into maritime history or model shipbuilding often don't realize that ships undergo constant change throughout their lives. When I first began building models I couldn't understand why folks were refering to ships by a specific year. Now I know.

[davidwaples]

Here are a couple of pictures to share with everybody. They were brought to my attention by Jon, and were published in the "Nautical Research Journal Summer 2008, Volume 53" and "Pearl Harbor- The Way It Was". They were supposedly taken from the National Archives so hopefully they're okay to post here. If not then mods please remove.

The first picture is of the Arizona in August 1941 at Pearl, and clearly shows that the radar platform had not yet been installed on the foretop, and the range clocks still appear to be in place. The second photo was taken two months later on October 13th, and while the image is more grainy it appears the radar platform is there and the range clocks are gone. According to Stillwell's book the Arizona went into drydock from September 15-19th, so I am guessing the changes were made at that time.

I really hope some better pictures still exist from late 1941 and will soon be found, but in the meantime at least these answer a couple of questions for modelers.

These are interesting photos. Correct me if I'm wrong but before Arizona had the undetermined paint scheme she had at the time of the attack, she was in a two toned lighter gray scheme. These photos seem to indicate something similar? Or is it just light reflection. It just seems so distinct at the bow where I notice it on earlier images of Arizona. I'm curious if anyone has any thoughts about this.
Dave

[Dick J]

These are interesting photos. Correct me if I'm wrong but before Arizona had the undetermined paint scheme she had at the time of the attack, she was in a two toned lighter gray scheme. These photos seem to indicate something similar? Or is it just light reflection. It just seems so distinct at the bow where I notice it on earlier images of Arizona. I'm curious if anyone has any thoughts about this.
Dave

I think you are misinterpreting something. The Aug '41 and Oct '41 photos are in MS-1. That is pretty much undisputed. Short of painting the ship black, she was never painted darker from the top of the stack down. The color is 5-D. Some believe that by Dec 7th, the hull, at least, was 5-S (Sea Blue), which was significantly lighter than 5-D. 5-N (Navy Blue) was darker than 5-S, and 5-D darker than 5-N. What you are seeing at the bow is all shadow beneath the overhangs. The hull was a uniform color. The "two toned" aspect of MS-1 divided at the top of the stack. Her tripod masts were Pale Gray from the top of the stack up. There is a later photo. The November '41 drydock photo appears to some to still be too dark for 5-S. If she repainted, the drydocking was the logical point for that to start. Unfortunately, logic isn't proof. If she did repaint then, it was into a lighter color on the hull, not a darker one.

[dsk]

Here we go with the color debate again. I believe it was Tracy or somebody who said she was light grey overall at least until June '41, then MS-1 (5-D) afterwards. Looking at the photos I'm convinced that she was 5-D at least through November 8th. The interview with Lauren Bruner (one of the miracle Arizona survivors) last December indicates that they started painting her in 5-S shortly before the day of the attack, but they never finished past getting the hull and main turrets painted. He also claimed that they had a hell of a time getting the lighter color to go on over the dark paint underneath without the latter showing through. Anybody who's ever painted a room in their house and tried to slap a light color over a darker one can understand that problem quite well. Of course it's just one more survivor's story, and naturally there are contradictions with what others have said, so we're still no closer to knowing for sure.

What the pictures reveal primarily is that the radar platform on the foremast went up at about the same time that the range clocks were removed, which I'm guessing was during the September drydock period briefly mentioned in Stillwell's book.

[davidwaples]

Sorry to open the color debate again. Thanks for the clarification though. Now that would be an odd looking model. 5-S for the hull and turrets and 5-D for the rest. Add a 1:200 paint crew for good measure. I'm wondering if the photos might also indicate

I do have one question. In the MS-1 scheme would she have had the red turret tops?

So it's looking like three choices for me based on what is known....

1) Early overall light gray.
2) MS-1
3) Combo of 5-D and 5-S

I think options 1 and 2 will be my best bet.

Thanks guys
Dave

[MartinJQuinn]

I do have one question. In the MS-1 scheme would she have had the red turret tops?

Unequivocally yes for the red turret tops.

[Guest]

Holy cow, let me tell you, get lots of paint! When you think you got enough, get some more :)

[JohnD]

Hi guys, I've noticed in a few photos, that the hawsepipes on the main deck of some battleships the openings were part covered by a metal screen or mesh, if this is the same for the Arizona, it will be something to consider adding to the Trumpeter kit, to cover those huge holes in the deck. On the same subject, when the starboard anchor was removed from the ship, was the hawsehole covered over?
On an earlier page there was some discussion about the dark colour of the Arizona's decks. Maybe the decks look dark because they were wet. Did the crews wash down the decks each morning?
Final question for now, is Insignia Red the correct colour for the turret tops?
Thanks, John

[BFR4570]

Hi guys, I've noticed in a few photos, that the hawsepipes on the main deck of some battleships the openings were part covered by a metal screen or mesh, if this is the same for the Arizona, it will be something to consider adding to the Trumpeter kit, to cover those huge holes in the deck. On the same subject, when the starboard anchor was removed from the ship, was the hawsehole covered over?
On an earlier page there was some discussion about the dark colour of the Arizona's decks. Maybe the decks look dark because they were wet. Did the crews wash down the decks each morning?
Final question for now, is Insignia Red the correct colour for the turret tops?
Thanks, John

To answer your last question first, yes, I believe it was called Insignia Red. Tracy?

Interesting question about the hawse pipes! I don't remember seeing any covers in any pictures of the Arizona, but it makes sense to have them so someone doesn't fall down a hawse pipe during rough seas, or just being clumsy. Especially over the one, or ones, not be currently occupied by an anchor.

[JohnD]

Thanks BFR4570, I looked at WEM's website after I posted, they include the hawsepipe covers in their 1/200 Arizona PE set. I might try my hand at scratchbuilding the covers. I thought the Insignia Red was the right colour because that was the red used on USN aircraft, I just wanted to make sure. Just tried fitting an anchor to the hull after filing out the hawsehole, it sure is a tight fit, I guess I have a little more filing to do!
John

[dsk]

What you need to do with the anchors in the kit is to file the hole in the fluke so that the shank can lean over like it's supposed to anyway. That way you won't have to open up the hawespipe holes so much. I used a square needle file on mine, and it only required a few passes, just enough to get the shank to tilt over to about a 30-degree angle.

[JohnD]

Thanks DSK will try that!
John

[davidwaples]

Did anyone order and receive the Profile Morskie Arizona book? I ordered mine almost two months ago and have yet to receive it.
Dave

[mark_sch]

Did anyone order and receive the Profile Morskie Arizona book? I ordered mine almost two months ago and have yet to receive it.
Dave

Dave,
I have on order with my WEM 1/200 pe set. Where did you order it from?
Mark

[kurt]

I ordered one directly from Poland, Merchant Firma Wydawniczo-Handlowa "BS". It alos comes with 1:200 plans. We'll see how long it takes to get. I've ordered other things from Poland and got them in about 1 1/2 weeks.

Kurt

[dsk]

Thanks BFR4570, I looked at WEM's website after I posted, they include the hawsepipe covers in their 1/200 Arizona PE set. I might try my hand at scratchbuilding the covers.

I couldn't make them out in the PE set. Anybody got a pic or diagram to show what they're supposed to look like?

[Timmy C]

I think they are the four D shapes between the two grabrails, under the four liferaft bottoms, on Fret B: http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/brochu ... e2002b.jpg

[davidwaples]

Did anyone order and receive the Profile Morskie Arizona book? I ordered mine almost two months ago and have yet to receive it.
Dave

Dave,
I have on order with my WEM 1/200 pe set. Where did you order it from?
Mark

I ordered mine directly from Poland as well. I received the download right away. I sent a message about a month ago asking about it but got no reply. I'll try again.
Dave

[BFR4570]

The links to the fret pictures on the WEM website appear to be broken. Fortunately, John already posted them in the Manufacturers Section. Thank you John!

[dsk]

Frankly I'm glad I finished my kit before all these new goodies (WEM frets and MK1 wood decks) came out, otherwise my budget for this thing would've gone through the roof! Now I can kick back, and wait for some of you pros to use the new stuff and make a real humdinger of a model for the rest of us to drool over.