Calling all Russian icebreaker Krasin (Красин - 1916) fans

[Manteuffel]

Hi,
are there any fans of this ship?
I am trying to find as much info as possible,
did found something online but consider amount of photographies inadequate.
I am interested in appearance of ship before and during WW2.
Any suggestions please?

[maxim]

Here you find some photos of Krasin between the World Wars and at least one during Second World War:

http://www.polarpost.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=648

There is also this site:

http://www.krassin.ru/

but I have not found good photos of the Second World War period.

Most drawings show her in a early fit or after the rebuilt in Wismar (1953-60). There is booklet (Drama in the Arctic, S.O.S. Italia by Fred Goldberg) about the attempts to rescue Nobile, which should contain some photos of Krasin. I could check this.

Unfortunately I was not yet able to obtain the Combrig 1/700 kit...

[Manteuffel]

Thanks for help,
I expected somebody will have more pics then above mentioned.
I did found these before.

[mike mccabe]

Does anyone know if in her as built fit she had steel or wooden decks? The combrig kit shows mostly steel, other models I have seen show wooden, I have not seen any overhead photos to be able to tell which

Mike

[Manteuffel]

I believe steel deck wouldnt be really practical in polar areas so I suggest there has been wooden one,
although Svyatogor has been build by englishmen:-)))
Maybe its plans are accesible in Armstrong Whitworth archive.

[maxim]

Here are some deck photos:

http://www.polarpost.ru/f/uploads/302_img_2718.jpg
http://www.krassin.ru/imgb/3096.jpg
http://www.krassin.ru/imgb/3094.jpg
http://www.krassin.ru/imgb/3101.jpg
http://ljplus.ru/img4/k/n/kniga_bukv/20 ... sin_02.jpg
http://ljplus.ru/img4/k/n/kniga_bukv/20 ... sin_06.jpg
http://venividi.ru/files/img/6681/3.jpg
http://venividi.ru/files/img/6681/5.jpg
http://venividi.ru/files/img/6681/6.jpg
http://venividi.ru/files/img/6681/7.jpg
http://venividi.ru/files/img/6681/9.jpg

At least after her rebuilt she had wooden decks.

Here is a model with wooden decks:
http://www.cardarmy.ru/exhibit/nino-2006/krasin.jpg

In Drama in the Arctic, S.O.S. Italia by Fred Goldberg are some photos (c. 1928), but unfortunately, they all made in an upward angle and the deck is not visible.

[Manteuffel]

So it seems nobody really knows...
What was Combrig kit based on?
Do they have aother source.
There are plans even on net showing that,
but no pictures.

[Guest]

I was lucky to spend two month on a board of icebreaker Krasin (as a journalist) at the autumn 1990. At that time she had wooden deck. It was rebuilt in Wismar after 1953. I have two photographs which prove it. I don�t know how to put the pictures here as a proof but I will find the way to publish them and will keep you informed.

[Timmy C]

To post photos as a guest, please use Method 2 as listed here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1261 Looking forward to the photos!

[Guest]

You can find promissed photos (showing wooden board) here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/Elkapress/ ... buIweTYsQE

Sincerely, Leonid

[Manteuffel]

And what about more pictures from era before rebuild in Germany?

[JIM BAUMANN]

Well now...

I am currently building a model of Krassin around the time of the Nubile /Italia Rescue era ...

The vessel has wooden decks at that time- all models - solid and card seem to agree with this

apart from the Combrig kit which has smooth decks...!!!!!!!!!


- herewith a photograph of the deck looking fwd from the bridge

HOWEVER....>>> numerous photos of models of Krassin show her with white superstructure and red stars on funnels

I have yet to see a photograph of the ship with white superstructure and red funnels--indeed I have as yet not seen a photo of her with white superstructure at all....

( I too erroneously gave her a coat of white on the superstructure- blindly following the model....

Closer and better analysis (!!) of period photos leads me to believe that the superstructure was painted a brown ochre. lighter in colour than the timber cladding of the fwd bridge

again the above images suggest that the masts, vents and funnels were yellow buff- with the superstructure brown ochre--

see images below...

No white to be seen in 1932 except boats and canvas dodgers

The model which has misled me and others...( the model is actually on-board the preserved-albeit rebuilt- Krassin ship museum)

This paintig appears to agree with my thoughts as above--and the posted photos-- the funnel, vents and mast show consistency of tone from all angles in all shadows... as photo belwo

This very interesting photo of the fwd bridge appears to confirm my findings--

the wood palisading is significantly darker in tone than the lower metal superstructure


I have labelled the various colours

A-- dark timber

B -- Ochre

C -- White


If anyone wants what material I have found so far on Krassin-- in somewhat higher res--please e-mail/PM me with your
your e-mail addy


Cheers

JB

[JIM BAUMANN]

Once again---faaaar from definitive proof...

the link to the very interesting Russian forum that Maxim supplied has--via an sub-sub-link yielded some plans-- quite large gifs--send me an e-mail if you want them...


I have auto-translated most of the text via an Optical recognition programme....

quite interesting--if hard work to read!

JIm Baumann

[Rui Matos]

Hi Jim

Here's my humble contribute, (from web search) since my books don't have any info other than that you have....
I post these here, because, as you know, google search what you input - so, two brains, two different results


1 - Not very helpful, but a good dio idea


2 - A nice stern view


3 - Same painting as you have posted, but with no flash glare and more vivid colours


4 - Foggy, but...


5 - Not on Ice








Not the Krasin, but the sister ship

This is where they came from:
http://www.polarpost.ru/f/viewtopic.php?id=648

Hope this helps a lil' bit
Cheers
Rui

[maxim]

The colour of the superstructure is only clearly visible on the photo of the bridge - indicating that it was painted buff. I will scan another photo indicating that the crane posts on the foreship, the foremast and the searchlight platform on the foremast have the same colour (probably buff).

The supports of the bridge deck and the bridge deck edges appear to be painted white.

[JIM BAUMANN]

Thank you all for your input--it would appear that the roofs of the deckhouses likely to be th same as the walls.

new query raised for your perusal!


1) the plans--and the kit-- funnels show a cowl skirt at the base of the funnels...

I have not been able to establish these on any photos of the vessel--and have therefore elected to make new funnels of brass tube.... unless the magic photo appears!! ?

2) the cowl vents I have established are the same colour as the funnels.

These have external rotating gear--the gear wheel ring part of which is just below the cowl- I am reasoning this to be black as the tonal values of funnel top and winding gear ring look identical.

HOWEVER--'some' of the vent bases are a darker colour... question is...?

are they black--or the same colour as the superstructure--which I believe to be ochre....
My instinct tells me they may be the same colour as the superstructure--based on the the levels of the colour band aligning exactly with the upper levels of the of the superstructure...

but I would be happy to hear opinions or debate thereupon!

[maxim]

I cannot see the cowl skirt on your photos. The lower part of vents appears to be black. This appears to be the most "logic" colour.

Any idea about the colours of the Junkers JuG-1? Green or Orange?

[DariusP]

I agree with maxim on both points.

[JIM BAUMANN]

I am taking a step back for every two forward....

Although it is perfectly reasonable to surmise that the deckhouse colours were the same colour as the sides...
-seeds of doubt have been cast by some of my Krasin e-correspondents , cereberus_jf for one ...
by study of a number of other vessels of the Russian Navy--albeit somewhat earlier naval vessels-that often the deckhouse roofs WERE a different colour...

The build of my models is in danger of a stall...--for lack of info on a key component--the colour of the deck house roofs and it being verifiable...!!

.......the only on-deck photos I have ..are either cluttered up with aircraft--or are too low res to read anythiong from.

This postcard below -- in a higher resolution WOULD be useful--I have written-via google translators... to the uploaders on a variety of Russian forums for a higher res version

we can only hope...!!

meanwhile....


Some plans indicate that the area ahead of the bridge-to-the breakwater was all timber--other plans ( and some models' suggest that area may have had lino covering....

but.......

neither the plans or indeed all the models agree--

either on deckhouse colours- not seen a single photo ( yet!!) of the real ship with white deckhouses...

where in fairness.. the all-grey wartime model has funnels that agree with my findings--ie no cowl-skirt!!



arghhh!



Then again--ALL the plans show a tapering-in-height breakwater that cannot be verified in any photo--

and NONE of the above models appears to depict this correctly ....

The breakwater, according to all the images I have downloaded ..., being virtually constant in height to the deck-edge--and only after a sharp bend and following the deck-edge aft... does it reduce in height ....

I have downloaded--all 362 mb ! - of a documentary film( 1928 ) made of the Krasin Nubile rescue in 1928....

I shall now study this in an endeavour to be able to freeze a frame that will help me out of this turmoil and torture!!


As a sign of life--to prove that this is not merely idle speculation

encs some images of progress so far ( all of one month!!!!!!!!!!! )

The white styrene at hull base is to raise the hull when it is in the ice....

[DariusP]

Hate to add to your soft shoe shuffle Jim but I am suspicious about deck areas covered with lino... What sources have you got for this? Remember Yermak thread? Haven't somebody mentioned there that lino or metal on decks aren't right materials for cold weather sailing? It made sense to me than and it does now.
There is this shot of Krasin's crew in 1928: http://www.krassin.ru/expedition_1928/spisok/ It looks to me like this photo was cropped. If you could find un-cropped version AND got lucky maybe at least one of your questions would be answered?

edit- added link to a photo of Krasin's crew.