The Ship Model Forum

Tracy White's remarks on the new Squadron Arizona book can be viewed here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83588

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De quoi s'agit-il?

With Tracy White's input, I've cut many pertinent posts from the Unboxing Arizona thread and added them to this thread.

If anyone wants to suggest other posts that may have value in being saved her, please PM me with the date & time of the post, who wrote it and a what it's about. I'll then review and move it if it's applicable to this thread.

Please DO NOT post those requests her.

Thanks.

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Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

I'm very happy to be able to post this finally; a rigging diagram of sorts for Arizona 1941. Kathleen OConnor is a researcher at NARA San Bruno; a retired archivist in fact who was in charge of the Navy records there for many years. I've known her for a decade through the Pearl Harbor History Associates and have had the honor of meeting her a couple of times when down at the archives there. The last time I was down, she came across a drawing of Arizona in the salvage logs for Pearl Harbor. Dated February of 1942, it shows the mud line and some general notes on a plan of Arizona roughly correct for summer of 1941 (it shows the January 1941 overhaul changes, but not the removal of the concentration dials and addition of the radar pedestal). It is a nice historical find, but also shows a lot of the rigging and lighting as she had that fateful day, so I think it'll be a good reference. Kathleen was gracious enough to allow me to have it scanned and posted, so I've added it to my Running, signal and anchor lights page as that seems to be the best place for it now, since it shows those items.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thanks a bunch, Tracy. That drawing shows a lot of things besides just the rigging. It proves there were still saluting guns aboard, and also that fire damaged both the boat cranes and the mainmast below the 12' range finder platform. I know some people were looking at those areas in color photos for evidence of the final color scheme, but obviously they were fire damaged and thus useless for that.

I still haven't attempted rigging for my Trumpeter Arizona and have left it 99% complete all summer. Maybe this will provide the impetus to finally put on the finishing touches.

The drawing appears to be a copy of the outboard profile from the ship's booklet of general arrangement plans. The information shown, rigging, lights, etc. is typical of GA plans. Apparently, this one was marked up as part of the salvage operation which, as you say, makes it historically interesting. One wonders if other sheets from the GA booklet were marked up in a similar fashion and if they survived.

Many years ago, mid-seventies, I purchased a set of Arizona's GA drawings from, I believe, Floating Drydock, but looking at his catalog now, I don't see them offered.

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Steve Sobieralski
Tampa Bay Ship Model Society

Thanks Tracy! Got 'em bookmarked

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If ya lose yer sense of humor...
You've lost everything...

On the Bench:
1/720 Italeri CVN-68 ca 1976/77
1/800 ARii 1/800 CV-59 backdating to 1961 (CVA-59)
1/700Trumpy USS Hornet CV-8 "Doolittle Raiders"

a chief av. bosn. assigned to paint locker detail says bb39 was repainted in oct-nov with measure 5s. told this to his son in 1955 when son recieved revell az. model. very close to fs35109 0r testors 2031.

I think that's the same story we've heard told before. Problem is, the photo of the Arizona in drydock in November '41 clearly shows she was still a very dark color, most likely 5D. Perhaps at the next Pearl Harbor reunion next month somebody can try asking Lauren Bruner or one of the other survivors if they can recall any more about if and when she may have been repainted.

Problem with that photo is that it was also metered to expose details of a bright surface dead center and Arizona was off to the side. So I'm not sure how much I trust it to determine color.

I note as well that there was no "measure 5s."

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

He could have meant that the ship was painted with 5S. But not everyone at his level would have known all of the measures. He just painted with what he was told to use. Still not "absolute" proof, though.

Oh trust me, I realized that. What I was trying to point out was that there's plenty of confusion with that statement and it's not anything you can put any credence on in and of itself. Now, if it were part of a pattern of people saying something similar, then it means something.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

I am slowly coming along my Arizona and having been building a little here and there on it. Been looking at some of photoetch parts I got and working them in sub assemblies. I do have a question on the port windows. I am mostly a aircraft modeler and when I say the Arizona come out in 1/200 scale I had to have my first battleship model. Please forgive me if I don't know what some things are called. I think someone said the layout wasn't correct? Was that for a earlier version of it? I was thinking of making mine somewhere in the middle and up to December 7th, 1941. Should a person drill them out and after painting put some cystral clear so it looks like windows? Has anyone given thought on what to do for windows? Dan

Hi Dan. Portholes are also known as Scuttles. There's a couple of different ways that people do them, mainly to suit taste. They could be open, glass-covered, or metal shuttle covered. Drill out for the first two, use some sort of crystal clear for the second or don't drill it and put a drop of gloss over black. For the metal shutters I like to put a thin wash in while the model is inverted so that it settles thicker at the top, more closely looking like shadows.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Switching gears for second, did Trumpeter ever release spare Kingfishers for the 1/200 kit? Either they still haven't or else I'm blind.....

Hi there
While I was doing some checking on the banner kit for my 1916 project I noticed that the main deck level at the midships position at the step down is actually higher than that level at the bow. The Morskie plan No 110 shows that the level at the bow is actually 2mm higher ? is this correct ? if anyone has any clues please do tell .
I also checked the 1/200 kit and the deck at the bow is 1mm lower than at the midship step. ?

cheers Jay

I have not seen the kingfishers for sale separately anywhere either

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"Let's make sure that history never forgets the name... Enterprise"

Meaning that you;d expect a slope down from bow to the break, but the kits slope up?
Or am I miss-understanding you?

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thanks Tracey
thats what I mean- the deck goes uphill the further aft you go , I know from my model yacht building that the center plank of the deck can be dead level and as the beam increases going aft the deck edge drops due to the deck camber, thats how you can get some sweep in the deck/gunwale line. Any idea what the deck camber on the USS Arizona was ?

cheers Jay

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"Let's make sure that history never forgets the name... Enterprise"

I pulled up the Arizona Drawing I have and made sure it was "Square." Using photoshop guide lines lined up with the keel, waterline, and forecastle deck, there is a slight rise in the deck between the bow and the frame 88 break, but there are enough little joggles in the plans that I'm going to say it's a wash; it would be about a foot of difference anyway if the steady creep is an indication of slope. Nothing I'd worry about in 350th or 200th scale.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thanks Tracey
I am glad I am not going nuts, so what my plan is - to follow this and to be on the right side of the line , the deck should be, at the very least, level or slightly up at the bow. The main thing was that the Banner kit as I have it is down at the bow deck level by around 1.5mm, I will cut the hull horizontally and pack it up or add material to the top.
cheers Jay

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"Let's make sure that history never forgets the name... Enterprise"

Damn...I'm not use to doing 1/200 railings and ladders. I'm sixty years old and I don't have the patience and dexterity to do these railings. Its like gluing legs on an ant!

So I post these photos just to show the progress I have made. Not that everything is perfect...