Calling all Soviet Kirov-class (Орлан) Project 1144 & Slava-class (Атлант) Project 1164 fans

[Peter H]

Hi all

I have the Trumpeter 1/350 Pyotr Veliky on the way to me and I have been going thru the forum over the last day or so. I have 1 question that may have been mentioned before but I cant find an answer or I just need some assistance please.

Back on page 16 in reference to a detailed drawing, I think Bob mentioned the "planned" but no fitted "Forward Cross Sword".
I can see the "Rear" Cross Sword on photos and other models that I believe controls the rear Eight SA-N-9's.
So my question is what Radar/System controls the Eight Forward SA-N-9's?

Thanks in advance for any assistance, apologies but I am not up to speed with so many radars / systems as the Kirov's have.

Best regards

Peter Hoskins
Sydney, AU

[Peter H]

Hi again guys

I have 1 more question if someone can assist, on my 1/350 Veliky I am thinking of having 1 or both of the forward SA-N-9 "hatches" open, I have 12 spare launchers from the Trumpeter PLAN Carrier that were not needed. Do these 2 "hatches open hinged at the front, with the rear raised? I cant find a photo anywhere except with them both closed. I wanted to add a bit "extra" to this kit.

Any assistance is much appreciated.

Best regards

Peter Hoskins
Sydney, AU

[carr]

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[Timmy C]

Where are the forward SA-N-9 launchers? I can't see them in any pictures :/

[carr]

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[Timmy C]

Ah, that explains it, thanks! The other Kirovs seem to have covers for the location of the rear SA-N-9s - if they never had the launchers installed, then perhaps we can conclude that the covers indeed denote the absence of launchers.

[Peter H]

Hi Bob and Tim

Thanks for your replys. Your thoughts that the front SA-N-9 covers are "just covers" seems to make me agree now, as you have all of the photos of Velikiy and none of them with front covers open, and my searching on the net and a Russian web page on her they are always closed. Probably the reason why there is no Cross Sword on the forward part of the ship as you mentioned.

Perhaps the only 9's are the 2 X 4 rotary lauchers on the rear deck.
Does seem like a waste of space forward, but with not a single photo I have to agree with you. Thanks again for your assistance and reply's. If you ever do find anything please let me know, I have a few other ships to do before I get to my Velikiy.

Best regards

Peter Hoskins
Sydney, AU

[Peter H]

Hi Bob & Tim

I have still been searching for Peter the Great with the forward SA-N-9, and I found the below:

http://forums.airbase.ru/2006/09/t60201 ... tr-ve.html

On Page 18-19 is a "Kirov" Class large model numbered "190" that looks to be in a museum. The model has Forward & Rear SA-N-9 rotary mounts. Granted it may have been a "what-if" but I may now decide to use my spares and add to my kit. You may have seen it but just wanted to let you know what I was able to find.

Best regards
Peter Hoskins
Sydney, AU

[carr]

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[Peter H]

Hi Bob

Thanks for the reply, I dident even notice the missing rear Cross Sword, just staring at the forward launchers, which do look a bit basic. Thanks also for confrming the Ship name and they other "errors or What-If" parts.

Again, much appreciated.

Peter Hoskins
Sydney, AU

[carr]

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[Peter H]

Hi Bob

Thanks for the pic and details about the bow of the Velikiy, that plate or piece of steel would need massive power to open if it was a door and why make it so hard?. Maybe the whole thing was to convince people she has 128 more SA-N-9's that she already had in the stern.
The forward section of the Kirovs is where the punch lived, the rear was a bit weak so yes adding a lot of SA-N-9's to the rear made her an even more powerful threat. Thanks again for your assistance.

Rgds,
Peter H
Sydney, AU

[GTDEATH13]

As I am too building Peter the Great, take in mind that the back part of the bridge is wrong and needs some work to fix it, but nothing too difficult.

Here is how Bob Carr tackled the matter on his Kirov build: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=42741&start=80

[Timmy C]

Re. bow SS-N-9: This photo indicates that they were fitted on Frunze, but not at the location of those "hatches": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SA-N- ... unze).JPEG


Can't find a clear photo of the area for Frunze, but this shot of Kirov shows two small hatches on the structure - seems like the SS-N-9s on the bow were not sited in rotary launchers: http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/02/165/02165002.jpg

[carr]

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[Timmy C]

That's what I was "afraid" of - that the photo was mislabeled. You're probably right.

As for the hatches, I was referring to these ones:

kirov bow.PNG (53.99 KiB) Viewed 2262 times

But looking at the launch photo again, it seems unlikely that the rockets were fired from those hatches anyway, unless the ship was moving backwards.

[carr]

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[Neptune]

Velikiy never received the forward launchers, any of your evidence is correct regarding that. Lack of guidance radar is in any case a pointer as they cannot use the total amount with a single guidance radar, doesn't work with their system design.
Forward part is just welded, "designed for, but not fitted with". All available SA-N-9 launchers went first to the Udaloy class. Velikiy was only finished after the fall of the Soviet union, when Russia was in dire need for money, adding the forward launchers would have cost a lot, yet wouldn't have given too much of an advantage given her Kashtans etc. She also never received a full load of missiles, the SA-N-6 was most of the time only loaded with 2 missiles.

[rritchie71]

Hi, I think Neptune is correct, she is fitted for but not with, in regards to the fwd launchers, she maybe able to use the aft SAN9 cross sword FC radar if she did have SAN9 fwd as they have 4 channels of fire, but I doubt it. Frunze and Kalinin are the same, they have plates over both the aft and fwd SAN9 launch silos with stands for the Cross Sword radars but non fitted.

I'm about to start a 1:72 scale Kirov, (bought the hull from Tim Amos) still haven't decided which to build, Kalinin or PTG, but I've been researching the differences.

Robert

[GTDEATH13]

In connection to the previous discussion about the forward fire control radar for the Kinzhals... There is a tombstone or gravestone(?) radar in front. Why cant they use this to guide the missiles?

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Engageme ... ntrol.html

http://www.ausairpower.net/sams-iads.html

I think Peter the great only misses the missiles bays. the guidance is there...