Calling all Soviet Kirov-class (Орлан) Project 1144 & Slava-class (Атлант) Project 1164 fans

[rritchie71]

Hi Nick, maybe they can, but I believe that the tombstone is the replacement to the Top Dome FC radar for the SAN6 system. To use the same FC radar for both missile systems would be a weakness in a multiple threat environment, a bottleneck. A Kirov in a war would be missile magnet, so why have all those missile batteries with all that offensive and defensive firepower and not have the FC radars to be able to use them. After all a FC radar can only control so many missiles simultaneously and only point in one direction at a time, and the Kirov�s were supposed to be the �big stick� capable of fighting a carrier battle group.

Robert

[Peter H]

Hi guys

My 1/350 Pyotr Velikiy & the GMM Etch has arrived, I probably wont start it for a while (I have Fuso + Repulse + Slava class Varyag) that I keep putting back and should do 1 before Velikiy.

I wanted to say thanks for all the info and assistance re the Forward SA-N-9 launchers & Cross Sword (I agree they were "possibly" going to be installed but in reality never were). I did the Kirov a few years ago and looking forward to having both sitting in their display cases side by side.

Thanks again from down under.

Rgds

Peter Hoskins
Sydney, AU

[Neptune]

Tombstone is a very different beastie from the Top Dome, although it does replace it. It is however not connected to the SA-N-6, but to a different missile, a follow on to the SA-N-6. Don't remember from the top of my head what it's designation or name is. I think it's was SA-N-12 Grizzly, but I'm not sure about that. These radar systems work very differently and have a sort of jamming protection in the way that the radar tracks both target and missile. The missile, in its final phase also tracks the target (I think by semi-active method, receiving the beams from the tombstone bounced off the target) and transmits that position to the radar. By comparing these two target positions it has a certain check of its target, so jamming on the missile alone won't work.
That's a different way of working, and pretty sure different frequency from the extremely short ranged SA-N-9 Gauntlet. Tombstone is a long range tracker, it's most likely not even capable of tracking targets close by due to its position and frequency (SA-N-6 and its brother very likely have a minimum range which perhaps is even further away than the Gauntlet's maximum range).
And indeed in combat it was the Russians method to have for each system a separate radar spaced quite far away so that the systems could be independent of a, possibly damaged, other system.

[rritchie71]

Whilst researching I came across this youtube video of Admiral Ushakov tied up at sevmash shipyard. The first bit is not terribly exciting as they do a ceremony on the flight deck, but after that the video has good coverage of ships side, going past her in a boat really does give a good idea of her sheer size.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puecwqw81vY


Robert

[redoctober27]

Hey Guys ..Question is there any good photo etch for the Trumpiter Kirov class 1/700 ships? can any of the PE from Flyhawks 1/700 Slave class be used on the Kirov class? Like the bridge windows? .. or Radars?

[GTDEATH13]

Lionroar has a pretty thorough set for the Kirov...

The flyhawk slava set is nice also...

[redoctober27]

Thanks for the reply GTDEATH13, Do you know if the flyhawk Slava PE bridge fits on the Trupiters Kirov ?

[GTDEATH13]

I do not know that, but judging from the great difference in size of the two superstructures I think it will not fit. The Kirov bridge is almost twice the size of the Slava bridge.

[redoctober27]

Hey one last question, Dose the Russian navy use different colors on there ships depending one what fleet it is part of ? I have notius that some russian destroyers and cruisers have different shades of grey , some ships look like they are painted an almost dark navy blue whill others look like a light grey and most look like a light blue in color. Is the color of russian ships determaned by what fleet there attached to you is this simlpy a color change on the ships from the transition from a soviet navy to a Russian navy

[Timmy C]

Yes and sort of: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=107408

[carr]

..

[redoctober27]

Yes Timmy ! Thank you much!

[Timmy C]

All part of the job

It's the worst thing when you recall a thread that mentions something but the thread is no longer there because it's been auto-pruned.

[carr]

..

[Timmy C]

That is correct. Such was not always the case, however...

[chuck]

Ah, that explains it, thanks! The other Kirovs seem to have covers for the location of the rear SA-N-9s - if they never had the launchers installed, then perhaps we can conclude that the covers indeed denote the absence of launchers.

At least one Kirov class ship must have had SA-N-9 installed at some time during her life. There is a profile photo showing one of the Kirov class ship firing 3 SA-N-9 simaltaneously from her bow. The contrails starts too far forward and the missiles are too small to be S-300s

[Timmy C]

Chuck, you're not talking about the photo that I linked to later in this thread, are you?

[chuck]

Yes, those are it.

I guess they may be decoy rockets.


Another question, is the shape of the Sonar radom in trumpeter correct? I saw drawings showing the rear of the radom tapering into a vertical knife edge instead of fairing smoothly into the hull.

[Timmy C]

I would go with tapered, though the images aren't entirely conclusive: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=8143&start=260
(also read for the next few pages from that page on for discussion of stern/hull bottom configurations, if you haven't already)

[chuck]

Hmm, I wonder what kind of sensor suite could be in those pods. It might be reasoned to remember, that the Sovremenny were slated for Amphibious Operations Support - they're a NSFS platform and surface combatant. Udaloy by comparison is an ASW asset, and vicariously so is the Kirov, with her primary armament. One could reason it's some form or sensor suite, related to ASW, and thus its presence on the Udaloy? Just a stab in the dark.

Soviet ships were known to use active noise cancellation technology. It is possible these are speakers or pick ups for propeller noise cancellation?