Calling all HMS Invincible/Indefatigable battlecruiser fans

[HMSInvisible]

My conclusion:

The book, published just a few years after the war, is illustrating stories of the actions of the time to a no-doubt eager readership.

We've got a natural triplet in the text: Invincible at speed, Invincible exploding, Invincible wrecked.

I suspect the publishers, lacking appropriate and definitive images, have selected those which best tell a story.

Andy

[Dan Banks]

Not trying to be a contrarion, but I just got the Burts "British Battleships WWI" in the mail yesterday and there is a picture of Lion on page #182, that is captioned as "Lion 1 June 1916 on her way home from the Battle of Jutland". Even though this cannot be considered definative, I am starting to think that Lion, Princes Royal, had nets at Jutland, along with Queen Mary. Tiger, Indefatigable, Inflexible, Indomitable, New Zealand for sure did not. I think they took the nets off any ships that still had them after Jutland because they were prop tangle hazzards in battle and they couldn't stop the new torpedo's that most nations were using.

[HorribleHarry]

HMS Invincible question for you all...
Can somebody guide me towards any information on Invincible's swirly thingie on her foremast during 1914 (falklands)
I am guessing it is some form of antenna that swirls up around the foremast over the starfish.
I have not seen any explanation of it in either Tarrant's or Roberts' books on this unusual feature.

Thanks for any info you can give,
Harry

[MartinJQuinn]

Harry,

John Roberts says it's a range finder baffle, for what it's worth.

@Dan - the torpedo nets, if I recall correctly, were for use in harbor only, not while underway.

[DariusP]

Royal Navy experimented with all sorts of range finder baffles. R.A.Burt shows some of those attempts in his "British Battleships of WWI".

[GMG4RWF]

I have 2400 scale Invincible & Indefatigables - the tan & Grey at the top I traded for (still working on the others paint)

[MartinJQuinn]

Looking for a photo to show the same camo Indomitable is wearing in this drawing:

HMS Indomitable December 1914.

I know(think?) I've seen one before, but can't seem to locate it again.

Thanks!

[Vlad]

Hi all,

A few (hopefully) easy questions about HMS Invincible

1) When did her fore-funnel get extended and what markings (if any) did she carry on the funnel after the extension?

2) What was the "normal" oriantation to park the wing turrets?

[MartinJQuinn]

Her fore funnel was extended in early 1915, after the Falklands.

As far as I know, funnel bands had been eliminated by that time, she never carried one again.

Looking at photos, there doesn't seem to be a "normal" orientation, but the more common seems to be starboard side pointed aft, port side pointed forward.

[Vlad]

Thanks Martin. The famous picture of HMS Inflexible picking up Falklands survivors is regularly mis-labeled as HMS Invincible on the internet so it got me a bit confused.

[MartinJQuinn]

Here is a photo of Invincible taken during the chase of Von Spee. You can see the equal sized funnels, lighter overall color and no funnel bands.

[Hallis]

Here is a photo of Invincible taken during the chase of Von Spee. You can see the equal sized funnels, lighter overall color and no funnel bands.

Jesus i'd hate to be manning ANY station on the back half of that deck. They're really rolling coal there. Must be moving at a good clip.

[GMG4RWF]

...i'd hate to be manning ANY station on the back half of that deck. They're really rolling coal there. Must be moving at a good clip.

yea really any coal burner. here's SMS Scharnhorst (the other side) - that's why "Down Wind" became the optimal position (to blow smoke behind you, out of your gunners LoS & your enemies into their faces) when "Up Wind" had been for sailing ships & later CV's(to turn away & into the wind).

[TCC]

Updating Dan's list:

Lion -YES
Princess Royal -YES
Queen Mary -yes ...This photo is of her, taken from HMS Tiger, steaming at Jutland.

Tiger -never had them
New Zealand - no
Indefatigable -no
Invincible - probably not. There's a photo of her here, in the act of exploding
Indomitable -no
Inflexible -no

Andy

Along with the image mentioned previously of Lion steaming back from Jutland on the 1st June, there's a photo of Lion minus Q turret, with nets, at Armstrongs Walker Yard on the Tyne. I believe they came off soon after July 19th when she rejoined the BC Squadron

Princess Royal will be of similar timing with her removing them in the months after jutland. The most common proof is the painting by Wylie of PR under repair after Jutland with net booms.

[Vlad]

Hi Guys,

I've been re-reading this thread as part of research for building the various Jutland battlecruisers. I just wanted to continue the discussion regarding torpedo nets and booms, specifically on HMS Indefatigable.

Where does this picture fit in the chronology? I assume it is from late 1915 (dark rectangle) and that it is HMS Indefatigable (could it be one of her sisters?) and it clearly shows no nets or booms. Can we assume from this they were removed at the same time as the 4" guns were placed into casemates?

[Frank Fowler]

Vlad,
This is Indefatigable. Indefatigable is the only one of the three in this class to have the upper works position on the main mast (the enclosed platform with roof, spotting top). It is my understanding that this photo was taken not long before Jutland. The other question I have about Indefatigable is concerning the reconstruction of the forward superstructure. I have not found any clear detailed photos of the bridge area prior to Jutland. Peter Smith's British Battle Cruisers and Breyer's book have profile drawings of Indefatigable at Jutland showing some major modifications to the bridge structure and two new platforms on the foremast; however, there are no plan views. There is one other photo of the ship just prior to going into action at Jutland shown on page 117 of the new addition of Burt's British Battleships of World War One from off the bow that is helpful. It shows no nets and booms, the larger forward superstructure and the two new platforms on the foremast. I wonder if Mr. Smith has any other details to go with his profile drawing in his book? Looking forward to anything else you discover concerning these ships.

[Vlad]

Hi again,

I remember some time ago someone on here posted a side view drawing/art of an I class with a camouflage consisting of random light patches on a dark background. I believe it was either Inflexible or Indomitable in the Dardanelles. Does anyone know where it went?

Thanks

[George Hargreaves]

Hi,

Have a look at Martins post in Sept. He references Grand Fleet Battlecruisers by Steve Backer. I think this is the photo.

Cheers,
George

[Vlad]

Excellent photo, thanks George!

Yes, it was Martin but I missed it because it was a link not an embedded picture, doh!

That scheme is pretty unique and interesting. If I'm not mistaken she wore this at Digger Bank too? I've heard of a photo of her towing the damaged Lion showing similar splotches.

[George Hargreaves]

RA Burt reports that the Dardanelles paint scheme of HMS Indomitable was painted out on return to England in December 1914. She was under refit from late December and the first couple weeks of January 1915.

Cheers,
George