Calling all Wickes-class & Clemson-class "Four-Piper" fans

[Rick E Davis]

Here is a close-up of the funnels and bridge areas ... about the only places they are painting in this photo. The dark band at the top of number one funnel matches the 3rd and 4th funnels. But, top band on funnel two looks "over sprayed" and the rest of the paint on this funnel looks in pretty good shape. But the guys painting on the bridge look like they are over painting the dazzle area.

My opinion was that the odds were that they were painting out the dazzle verse painting on dazzle were about 2 to 1. If they are painting out the dazzle area then the photo was likely taken in late 1918 or early 1919.

The same photo is on Navsource, but is much smaller and also, is undated.

Note; it looks like a 3-in/23-Cal gun is located abreast the two forward funnels.

[Tracy White]

Hey Rick, look at the guy painting the bridge canvas!

[sammuel]

Great photos!

I'm still plugging away at my model. I'm a slow builder and the salt mines have been keeping me busy (not complaining this day and age). I'm just so suprised and at times over whelmed (in a good modeling way), how much scratch building really needs to go into the Revell HMS Campbeltown kit, just to get a somewhat up to date model. Thank god for GMM. But even with the PE set, you have to really think, look and re-work areas of the kit.

I hope to have it completed before the Christmas. I will post photos once completed.

Sam

[Guest]

I was looking for info on the Wickes class of ships and found this forum.
I would like to say that Willies model looks fantastic!
I have the Revell 1:240 HMS Campbeltown model in hand. I am interested in building it as the DD163 USS Walker.
Some info here,
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-u ... /dd163.htm
The reason for this ship is that she is the main ship in the series, The Destroyermen By Taylor Anderson.
The authors page.
http://www.taylorandersonauthor.com/
The books start out with the ships being chased out of the Philippines by the Japanese.
The author says in the first book that he used the Walker because she did not see any memorable action in WW1 or WW2.
Well I liked the books and thought a model might be fun. As the ship as described in the book may or may not be accurate to the real Walker there is some amount of leeway in how I can build the model.
I revived a reply to a post on the authors web page saying he also looked at the USS Pope for some of the descriptions of the Walker.
I keep getting off on tangents in trying to find more info about these ships. I did some very interesting reading about torpedo problems at the start of the war. This lead me to read up on torpedo history and propulsion. Well you get the idea.
I have been trying to find the AOTS but none have come to light at a price I can afford at the this time.
Willie once again you model is amazing. I will be looking at many of the photos to help in my build.
Sorry for being so long winded!
Mel W.

I just started reading the series and got so interested in the Walker that I just bought the Campbeltown kit as well. Lots of work ahead of me now. Did you finish yours? Did you end up with many modifications?

Fassbinder

[fassbinder]

I just started reading the series and got so interested in the Walker that I just bought the Revell Campbeltown kit as well. Lots of work ahead of me now. Did you finish yours? Did you end up with many modifications?

Fassbinder

(Thought I would repost with a real identity instead of guest.)

[Willie]

Hi Mel and all,

Willie once again you model is amazing. I will be looking at many of the photos to help in my build.

Please feel free to ask for pics or info. I have quite a bit of info after months of research for my HMS Campbeltown. It would be my pleasure to lend anybody a hand on the build of these beautiful ships.

Best regards from beyond the seas,

Willie.

[whytewolf]

Hey all, another question for those of you out there who and love the flush deck destroyer.

As I posted previously, I'm working on a 1/72 scale model of HMCS ANNAPOLIS, ex-USS MacKenzie which was one of the flush deckers in the destroyers for bases deal. I'm using the Combat Models vacform hull, and while it's not perfect, it's reasonably close.

I'm also detailing the engine rooms so when you look through the hatches you can see the turbines, gear box and condensers etc. I have some minimal references of the layout (the graphics from Anatomy of the Ship HMS CAMPBELTOWN, a set of general arrangement plans for DMS-5 from HNSA.org), but I'm missing some important details like what the starting platform and walkways looked like and where they were located, as well as steam piping arrangements etc.

I've recently dug up some photos, one of the boiler room of HMCS NIAGRA, and three closeups of guages in HMCS COLUMBIA's engine room, but I was hoping someone might have some more references I could take a peek at.

I realize that in truth, if its this hard to track down references, I could do almost anything I want and few could prove me wrong--but I'm a stickler for accuracy (or is it my OCD?)

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Sean

[fassbinder]

Could anyone guide me to some information regarding which color paints to use in order to convert my Revell HMS Campbeltown kit into it's original USN Wickes class colors?

This will be built as a VERY casual build with as little modification as possible. So I'm really looking for colors easily available locally, probably Testors paints. I'm also thinking of leaving the deck 'wooden' as I don't want to rub out the planking...maybe there is a color which would possibly look metallic but also not look odd over the wooden planking beneath it. Something between the Tan and it's actual metal color.

At least some guidance to the hull colors would be appreciated.

I haven't built a model ship in several decades. As I recall, I was very meticulous in painting them in my youth; maybe it will come back to me.

I wish I would have taken photos of them back then to see if they were done as nicely as I remember them, but, all of them were most likely set ablaze with a load of fireworks aboard or shot up with bb's.

Thanks

[churchill]

Hello everyone,

Im building a Campbeltown Airfix Kit 1/600 but I would like to make her with the modifications for the St. Nazaire Raid. Does anyone knows which were the modifications she got to look like a German destroyer?

Thank you

[Endless Soul]

Hi everyone.

I just discovered this site recently and I signed up just so I could post in this thread. Like some others, I am also working on the classic Revell 1/240 HMS Campbeltown. I decided early on that I would not use any aftermarket items such as photo-etch, and would be really testing/expanding my skills by scratch building stuff with styrene only. I've been posting my progress on another site, but I'm not sure what the rules are regarding mentioning and referencing other sites.

Looking at earlier posts in this thread, it seems Willie and I have the same ideas. I'm going to be using your photos for inspiration Willie, I hope you don't mind.

I do have one question. Regarding the crows nest on the fore mast. I'm having a hard time determining if it should be hollow or covered with something, like a cap.

Thanks, and I'll talk to you guys soon.

[PeeJay333]

Four Piper Fans:

I am another very newcomer to this thread, having been following the Fletcher Fans thread, and subsequently discovering its sister threads on other destroyer classes. I have been a longtime fan of the flush deck destroyers and purchased the U. S. Naval Institute book, "Flush Decks and Four Pipes" when it was first published. Since then I have collected a few other references along the way-- a drawing of the USS Dahlgren by Edward Wisswisser, a "310' Flush Deck Destroyer (unnamed) plan from Bluejacket models, the Squadron/Signal book "Flush Deck Destroyers in Action," and a series of contemporary construction articles for a model of the USS Preston by Captain Armitage from 1931 issues of Popular Science Magazine.

I was also recently directed to the Destroyer History website during an exchange of email wih Dave McComb.

I have long wanted to build an operating model of a four piper, but stability issues, among other things, scared me off. The advances in R/c equipment, motors and batteries have now resolved many of those issues. Additionally, while digging through my tubes of rolled up drawings during a search for something else, I came across a set of plans I had purchased many years ago from Alan B. Chesley of the USS Ward in several configurations from her launch to World War service.

I find Wiilie's model, as presented on this thread, to be an outstanding tutorial on building a model of this type destroyer and the supporting research. I am currently at the beginning of another project inspired in part by members of the Ship Modeling Forum, bot will be 'lurking here in the meantime.

PeeJay

[Charlestonguy]

If anyone has the Revell Ward kit and would like to trade for the Campbeltown decals please let me know.

[kb466]

I am doing some research for a 1/96 scale 1930's period USN four-piper destroyer and I am hitting a dead end with respect to one piece of equipment these ships allegedly carried. Supposedly, most of them were outfitted with a device called a Mk. 8 gun director or range-keeper manufactured by Ford Instrument Co. and copied from a Vickers design. It replaced a device called the Dotter directorscope. This was mounted on the flying bridge along with the rangefinder and the direction finder. The problem is I can find no photos, drawings or plans of this device. In many photos from this era, some ships show something in this location covered in canvas, but none show it exposed. I am not even sure all or any ships had this device. My source for this device being on four-pipers is the Family Saga book on the Four-pipers. Does anyone have any info or pictures on these "Mk. 8 gun directors"? Any help will be most appreciated. Thanks.
Bill M.

[Steve Sobieralski]

Does anyone have any info or pictures on these "Mk. 8 gun directors"?

There is a photo of the Mk VIII on page 190 of Norman Friedman's book Naval Firepower.

Apparently Tehnoart's next kit will be the USS Ward in 1/96 scale due out next March. Impressive, but expensive:

http://www.tehnoart.eu/uss-ward-kit.html

[kb466]

Steve,
Thank you for that bit of information on the Mk. 8 Rangekeeper. I had already found that photo in Friedman�s book.
Yes, Tehnoart is going to produce a 1/96 scale kit of the USS Ward in its December 1941 configuration. In fact, I have one of their pre-production Ward kits in my possession and was going to post some photos and my impression of the kit when I found the time to do so. Maybe I�ll get it together this weekend. But for a preliminary summary, it looks to be an extremely nice and well-done kit. The level of detail is extraordinary. The kit consists of an accurate one-piece fiberglass hull with shell-plating and locations for portholes marked. The portholes come as separate resin pieces. The guns are made up of brass castings and etchings, together with a turned aluminum barrel. They are extremely well done. Boats, davits and torpedo tubes are extremely well detailed. The deckhouses and masts are likewise well-executed. Suffice it to say, if you want a well-detailed large scale model of a flush-deck 4-piper destroyer, this looks like the ticket. I am told that they hope to have the kits available in March, 2014.
I am going to build my pre-production kit as an Asiatic Fleet Destroyer�either USS Stewart DD-224 or USS Paul Jones DD-230 circa late 1930�s in the pre-war large shaded number scheme. I will have to make some changes, but they aren�t major. One reason I was looking for information on the Mark 8 Rangekeeper is that the Asiatic Fleet destroyers were equipped with these for gun directors. I have been told that the pre-war flush-deckers in �fleet service� were equipped with the Mark 8�s, while the USS Ward, being a reserve ship used for inner harbor patrol duties likely had the much less complex (and much less expensive) �Baby Ford� Mark 2 director.
For those interested in flush-deck destroyers, you might be interested in knowing that Tehonart is also considering other versions of these ships to release in kit form. Nothing final yet, but they say they are going to look at producing an Asiatic Fleet destroyer, such as USS Pope DD-225 and a WW2 version, probably the USS Borie DD-215, as it appeared in November, 1943, at the time of its famous duel with the U-Boat and ultimate sinking.
I have been communicating with Tehnoart on this new flush-deck destroyer and have been offering input and suggestions. If any of you think you might want to add some input and/or suggestions, I can put you in touch with Tehnoart. I don�t want to post the contact information here unless authorized, but if you email me (see address below), I will provide you with the name of the person and the email address to contact. I think they would welcome hearing from potential customers. Likewise, if you have any questions about the USS Ward kit that I might be able to answer, feel free to email me at kb466@hotmail.com.
As to my personal interest in Tehnoart�I have none, except that I am a very happy customer who appreciates their accurate kits. I am presently building their 1/192 kits of the USS Sumner and USS Gearing destroyers. Both of these look to be accurate, well-designed kits. I was going to post some photos of these kits too and my progress on them. Haven�t gotten to that either. Maybe this weekend too on those.
Bill M.
Santa Fe, NM

[lucasner]

As a companion to the 1/72 U-552 I am close to finishing, I am going to build Revell's old 1/240 Cambletown into the Reuben James that Eric Topp treated so badly...haha.
But, since she was sunk prior to America starting the war, is there anyway to tell what (if any) modifications/paint scheme she had when sunk? I can't find anything saying when the Atlantic Escort Modifications were begun (20mm bandstand, removed torp tubes and aft stack). Would she have had the same configuration as the Ward did 2 months later in the Pacific?
I really want to do her as much justice as possible with an accurate representation of how she looked on Halloween in 1941.
Thanks,
Dave

[JCRAY]

There is a photo of her on Navsource, dated 1941 i think. hth

[kb466]

As a companion to the 1/72 U-552 I am close to finishing, I am going to build Revell's old 1/240 Cambletown into the Reuben James that Eric Topp treated so badly...haha.
But, since she was sunk prior to America starting the war, is there anyway to tell what (if any) modifications/paint scheme she had when sunk? I can't find anything saying when the Atlantic Escort Modifications were begun (20mm bandstand, removed torp tubes and aft stack). Would she have had the same configuration as the Ward did 2 months later in the Pacific?
I really want to do her as much justice as possible with an accurate representation of how she looked on Halloween in 1941.
Thanks,
Dave

USS Reuben James was very different from USS Ward at the time of her sinking. Floating Drydock has a set of plans of USS Reuben James at the time of her sinking. Hope that helps.
Bill M.

[Rick E Davis]

USS REUBEN JAMES (DD-245) was one of the 27 Flush-Deckers upgraded/modified to the six 3-in ASW Escort configuration. REUBEN JAMES never got 20-mm guns before she was lost in October 1941. She had 50-cal MGs as her secondary armament.

At least a couple of guys have made models of REUBEN JAMES on this website, links to two are list below.

Ken Summa built-up a model using a WEM kit... http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html ...

Richard Sliwka also built-up a model using the WEM 1/350 scale kit ... http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... 5/350-rs2/ ...


The one area I see wrong with the WEM kit for REUBEN JAMES, is the searchlight tower and midships 50-cal MG tub. In the photo of REUBEN JAMES in John D. Alden's book "FLUSH DECKS & FOUR PIPES", on page 36, there is no searchlight tower and the 50-cal MG tub is longer with three 50-cal MGs mounted in it. There were a total of five (maybe six) 50-cal MGs for these conversions.

The image below shows this tub in early 1942 on an unknown sister. The floater net basket was a add-on in 1942.

[lucasner]

WOW! Awesome information. Thankyou. It's always amazing how much MORE there is out there on the Internet when you think you have found it all! haha
I just ordered the 1/96 plans for the Reuben James from The Floating Drydock, and am looking at GMM's PE set and HR Product's 1/256 scale tidbits. I read in a build link a while back that it might be more appropriate to use HR's 1/192 scale guns for this kit. Does anyone have any experience with their fittings?
Thanks,
Dave