Calling all Bismarck and Tirpitz fans

[just some dude]

Unfortunately, I am unable to find any photo to back up what AJ Press claims. I can find lots of photos without the cover prior to the Dec/Jan refit, and lots of photos with the cover after the forward rangefinder was fitted, but I can't find any photos of that areas post-Jan, pre-forward rangefinder. I take it you are planning to build a Jan/Feb version of the Bismarck?

What I would suggest is for you to post this question on both the Bismarck class and kbismarck website forums, as I'm sure you will find someone there with more knowledge than I have.

As for your "top of the bridge" question, I'm am unsure what you mean by the top of the bridge. If you mean the top of the conning tower, as in the upper most deck on which the main fire control station and foretop rangefinder are mounted, that section is planked. There is a photo in Kaiser's book (of the original ship) showing this, but the planking appears to have spaces between the planks, such that it looks like grating rather than the planking seen on the main deck. If you meant another deck, please let me know (please post a pic), and I'll try to see if I can find a photo (but again, you will probably have better luck on the 2 websites specifically devoted to the Bismarck).

[just some dude]

Well, hold on, here is some more info. On page 34 of John Asmussen's book, there is a photo of the Bismarck dated 8 March 1941 showing the Bismarck in the Kaiser Wilhelm Canal, with Baltic Stripes, with the added cover to the upper inlets, but without the forward rangefinder, and without turret Anton's rangefinder. John claims that the Anton rangefinder was removed during the December refit, and that the forward rangefinder was fitted on 14 March. John also says that the other 2 rangefinders (and the aft 4.1" guns) had been fitted in November. So what time frame do you want to show Bismarck? If with stripes, but without the forward rangefinder, then you can do it with the added cover. Earlier than that, it isn't as clear, as it looks as though the covers could have been added anytime between November to March. That's about the best I can do. Good luck.

[pvk308]

The time frame I am looking at is after the Danzig bay exercise and Bismarck heading back to the B and V yard for the last refit. The deck section I talk of is the section where the wings come out from the deck

[Herr Nilsson]

The time frame I am looking at is after the Danzig bay exercise and Bismarck heading back to the B and V yard for the last refit. The deck section I talk of is the section where the wings come out from the deck

The modifications to the inlets were done in Hamburg between Dezember, 13th 1940 and January 24th 1941. Turret Anton never had any rangefinder installed. The rangefinder hoods were removed during the same period.
The deck section was covered by wooden gratings, which were removable.

[pvk308]

That's a big timeline and I wanted to be a little more exact but I can work with it, If the deck gratings were removable then showing steel deck is a possibility were they removable all the way up to and past the range finders over the top of the inlets

[Herr Nilsson]

The main problem is that there most known!!! pictures from Hamburg were probably taken on one single day with hoods removed and the covers in front of the inlets installed....and the baltic camouflage.

Steel deck or wooden gratings, both is right.

[pvk308]

Yes most of the pics I have seen or found are when Bismarck was in Hamburg or on the way there including Elbe river and the Kiel canal....... I was just hoping thee might be some of the boat in January or a little after....... either way I am not bothered....... And thanks for the confirmation I might go with the steel deck I think just to break it up a bit...... plus it means when I modify the section I wont need to cut the brass photo etch part number 603 up that came in the Pontos set

[just some dude]

Looks like you've already found somebody with more knowledge than me, but for what it's worth I was able to find a photo of the Bismarck with the foretop rangefinder installed, but without the inlet covers. So the covers were definitely installed after the foretop rangefinder, but before the forward rangefinder. Whether this was before, during or after the removal of Anton's rangefinder hoods is still something I don't have photographic proof of, but it sounds as though they were done during the same refit.

[pvk308]

Just some dude thanks mate trust me you have helped mate thanks

[Olaf Held]

As mentioned, the crated panels were removable and meant to float off in case of the ship going down. The famous photos showing just the deck leads most people to think that there was nothing but steel. The dark band around the base of the bulkheads is noticably wider than on other photos (wuth deck planking or crated or slatted panels in place). It was the same paint used for the steel decks (a very dark grey, RAL 7016). In my opinion, there never was a real bare-deck version.

For breaking things up, why not showing e.g. half of the panels removed, maybe for cleaning or painting the deck beneath?

Happy modelling ~ Olaf!

[pvk308]

I had thought of doing that Olaf and yes whilst knew of the picture with just the steel deck showing I haven't/ had not see one of the deck with grates added......... the problem is the Pontos set has these grates in the kit as a solid piece part number 603 and only allow you to model Bismarck after the addition of the extra protection to the inlets was added (see picture below outlined in red) and the nature of the photoetching does not allow it to be cut up without causing an eye sore due to the pattern made in the etch.... I would love to see a picture of the area to see what it looked like before the modifications were done and grates in place

[Herr Nilsson]

[pvk308]

Thanks Herr Nilsson appreciated looking at the picture there is no way to modify the Pontos part without really destroying the part ......hmm more thinking required

[Player]

Hello,

I'm making a model of Bismarck and have the next questions:
1) Details of bow anchor supports: on this site http://www.bismarck-class.dk/bismarck/w ... eck_1.html picture number 6 (or first forecastle section) show the structure from top back, need the same but from front.
2) Paint: the real ship paint and wood deck was satin or matte?
3) GHG: I didnt knew the Bismarck had an hydrophone (thats why the ships didnt had destroyer escorts?), any info on that devices detail on the real ship?
4) Flags: what flags where used on Bismarck and their size.

[Herr Nilsson]

1.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEhS_z8RJ4I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hopqaucg338

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4la4PlUxmY

2.)wood deck: matte
paints: it depends... IMHO most paints were not matte, but probably glossy

3.)


4.) naval ensign = 400 cm x 670 cm
jack = 150cm x 250cm
admirals flag = 240cm x 240 cm
captains pennant = 15cm x 1000cm / two tails: cut length = 250cm / width on the end of the tails = 2,5cm

[Player]

Thank you for reply!

1) Very usefull, if link 3 showed a little more at bottom right of that structure would be nice!
That area is very different compared with model kits available.

4) Any site with pics / design of Admiral Flag and Capitains Pennant? (asuming that Naval Ensign and Jack are the already know). There is a pic of a flag in a mast of a little square white flag with a iron cross on it, although I dont know if it is from Bismarck or Tirpitz. Their position on ship?

[Fiideli]

Hello everyone,

I'm a beginning modeller starting a new hobby. I started with a rather ambitious project as my first model, Revell's 1/350 Bismarck with Pontos photo etch parts. My plan is to build the model at pretty slow pace, studying different modeling techniques and history of the ship as I progress. I'm still at the very beginning of the project, removing the lines from the bottom of the hull and filling the seams.

My next step will be adding photo etch parts to the hull and about that I'd have some questions. What are the details that look like grating just above the little "wings" on the sides of the hull(under the waterline)? I've been doing some research about the ship by reading various books and kbismarck.com, but I haven't been able to find information about those details. Also, should I drill those original plastic details off or glue the photo etch details on top of them?

[Timmy C]

It's probably too late to tell you to stop and get your hands wet with a much smaller model, isn't it?

For the hull details of Bismarck, one of the best sources are the large-scale scratchbuilds in the Scratchbuild section, like these:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=42854
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=152431
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=158018 (page 3 would be of particular interest to you as he replaces the 1/200 Trumpeter kit's water intakes with the PE grills)

[Fiideli]

Thanks for pointing me to the right direction Timmy! Those threads are very helpful.

And yes, it's a bit too late to change the model I know that my modeling skills are at the moment very limited, but hopefully I will improve during the project. I'm advancing pretty slowly, taking care not to make any major mistakes. Just gluing the hull and sanding it has taken over a week already. I understand that this will be a long project so I've given myself a one year deadline to finish this

[Player]

It's probably too late to tell you to stop and get your hands wet with a much smaller model, isn't it?

For the hull details of Bismarck, one of the best sources are the large-scale scratchbuilds in the Scratchbuild section, like these:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=42854
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=152431
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=158018 (page 3 would be of particular interest to you as he replaces the 1/200 Trumpeter kit's water intakes with the PE grills)

On link 3 there is a drawing of the position of flags on ship, more detail on the top mast flag design?
The flags where used on port, sea or battle?