Calling all Fletcher-class (DD-445) fans

[Timmy C]

Veteran Models makes resin 3"/50 mounts as well as the triple torpedo tubes:
http://www.freetimehobbies.com/VTM35001/
http://www.freetimehobbies.com/VTM35012/ (it says Mk 36, but I think that's a typo)

[mstoltz]

Thanks guys. I may be in business with the double 3" mounts and the updated torpedo tubes. It appears the USS Sullivans currently preserved at Buffalo NY is in a similar fitting as the USS Black was during Vietnam. Therefore I might have a good reference. Now all it will take is money and time. I will keep you posted.

[Rick E Davis]

USS THE SULLIVANS would in general be a good subject to follow, except for the location of the Mk 32 TT mounts. USS ABBOTT (DD-629) and USS THE SULLIVANS (DD-537) had a different location/configuration for the Mk 32 TT location than the rest of the 4-Gun FLETCHERs with the Mk 32 TT. These two units had the Mk 32 TT mounts installed on wing platforms directly behind the amidships twin 3-in RFG mounts. Most other 4-Gun units (13 units ... the 14th unit USS PICKING which had another configuration, had them installed before the 3-in mounts) had the them located further aft where the Mk 14 TT mount was located. For completeness, seven 5-Gun FLETCHERs had Mk 32 TT mounts installed, plus USS HAZELWOOD as the DASH test ship.

See attached image for the most common type of installation during the mid-late 1960s.

[ESzczesniak]

I'm going to be starting my Revell 1/144 build. I've decided that I will build her as an early war U.S.S. Fletcher to minimize modifications. However, I will be adding as much detail as I can. I have the screws, photoetch, etc. I have seen some builds adding some of the hull details under the water line like condenser scoops, etc. I would like to add these as well and was wondering if anyone can point me in a direction for reference pictures or plans? The few photos I find in drydock never seem to show any of these details. Any help would be appreciated. I suspect they may come from plans, but wouldn't know where to find a good from a bad source of plans or if any may be available online.

[Rick E Davis]

A good question, but not easy to address. If you get the "BIW Fletcher Class Engineering Drawings" DVD that was available from DestroyerHistory.Org ... everything you need is in there. Maybe it will take awhile to find it, but it is there. However, since Dave McComb died, the website is in transition to TincanSailors.org. I don't know the status of that process nor who will be handling (if at all) sales of the DVD.

However I can give you a "rough" idea where the various openings were located on FLETCHERS. The Docking Plan Views below are from the mid-1950s, dated 1953, so the sonar dome and such equipment isn't the same as was on earlier WWII FLETCHERS. The WWII sonar dome was on the portside of the keel at frame 25. This plan is looking UP at the bottom, not down through the hull, because the "Echo Sounding" (depth-finder) sonar was on the starboard side of the keel. This view from the BIW drawings shows the Echo Sounding Fairwater on the starboard side, so I'm sure the docking plan is looking up at the hull. I do have photos showing the early sonar dome on the portside at frame 25.



Since most of these features you are asking about are on the bottom of the hull, it is next to impossible to take good photos of them. Underwater photos from WWII are practically nonexistent. I have some scans of photos taken during the 1950's that may be of use. Let me know which specific areas you are interested in, I maybe be able to provide a better view. Many scoops are nothing more than a hole with internal "ducting" and maybe some grates or structural supports.

[ESzczesniak]

Thank you for the reply, very informative! Looking through, it looks like the only things big enough to not just be drilled holes are the forward/aft condenser scoops and main circulation pump intakes. Any chance you have pictures of these? I'm also curious about the "SHELL MTG FOR VERT ECHO SOUND PROJ.", I just really have no idea what this represents. I appreciate the help everyone on this forum gives. I've been an airplane guy. I'm slowly learning ships, but I haven't gotten all the detail resources down yet.

[Rick E Davis]

I don't have a photo of the Condenser Scoops. There is a drawing of one on the BIW DVD.

I do have some underwater hull views that maybe of use to you.

Here are views of a typical Sonar installation (note there were several different types of domes for the sonars, but the cross-section was about the same);





Here is a view of the Fairwater for the Echo Sounding installation as seen from the bow looking aft. The bottom of the fairwater is flat and parallel with the sea floor. Echo Sounding was just a depth finder in relatively shallow water to help with navigating and to determine how deep to set the depth charges for detonation. The earliest equipment had separate transmit and a receiver devices, hence two apertures. Later versions had a single combo aperture and only needed one of the apertures;

(This view shows a mothballed unit with a cover plate over the aperture(s))


(drawing from the BIW FLETCHER Class Engineering Drawings DVD)


Here is a view of several of the smaller discharges (portside looking aft);



Here is a view of the Condenser Discharge (portside looking aft);



Here are drawings of the Condenser Scoop (drawings from the BIW FLETCHER Class Engineering Drawings DVD)

[ESzczesniak]

Many thanks! It's going to take me a little while to process all of this, but it looks like exactly what I need to at least add a reasonable facsimile of the underwater details.

[Rick E Davis]

When Dave McComb (Destroyer History Org.) died there was the question of whether the FLETCHER CLASS Bath Iron Works (BIW) ENGINEERING DRAWINGS DVD would still be made available for purchase. Dave McComb paid to have ALL of the 1,000's of drawings from this file at the National Archives digitally copied from microfilm at great cost and sold the DVDs at $30.00. This DVD is chocked full of drawings for EVERY configuration of FLETCHERS that BIW built. If one wanted to, they could nearly build a destroyer from them.

Well, I'm glad to inform anyone interested that the BIW FLETCHER CLASS Drawings DVD is how available from Tincan Sailor Assoc. Dave's widow provided Tincan Sailor with the rights to sell the DVD. Tincan Sailors will continue to sell the DVD for $30.00. They have yet to put the DVD on their "Store's" webpage, but the DVD can be ordered now.

Contact info for ordering a copy of the DVD is;

Tin Can Sailors, Inc.
PO Box 100
1077 County Street
Somerset MA 02726
(508)677-0515
800-223-5535
tcs@tincans.org

It's easiest just to call the office with your order, 10-4, M-F

[thomastmcc]

hi anyone do 1/72 torpedos and launchers etc for a fletcher class ? ..

thomas

[LoB]

Hello fellas, I introduced myself a couple years ago . . then disappeared because of work responsibilities . . .

I am doing a square bridge conversion of the Revell 1:144 kit. Life gets in the way sometimes . . . just getting back to this project.

Several questions . .

1: Can you point me to any other Revell 1:144 conversions that may be out there on the innerwebs?

2: I ordered all of the Nautilus Models goodies for this kit (PE, Whaleboats, 5" turrets, and the square bridge conversion) . . I think I read somewhere that the resin-cast square bridge conversion parts are problematic? Would anyone please care to expand on this?

3: What is the best source for the paint for this project . . I am doing her in the colors she wore when she was sunk by Kamikaze aircraft on 4th May, 1945 . . Measure 32 Design 18D. The colors are 20-B Deck Blue, 5-0 Ocean Gray, BK Dull Black, 5-L Light Gray.

4: What is the correct Red for the hull?

5: Source for twin 40mm and 20mm mounts?

I will be posting progress pics as I can, I have the hull joined (considering oil-canning . . yes I am anal like that) and the deck houses assembled. I had begun the process of scratch building the square bridge but then found the Nautilus kit . . . I am no stranger to scratch building . . having done many RC scale warbirds in years past . . but working at 1:144 (very small for me) is a new challenge. I am sure I will be posting many more questions.

Thank You!!

[Rick E Davis]

Guys, I can't provide much help in locating either 1/72 or 1/144 scale weapons or parts for FLETCHERS. I have never looked at building a 1/72 scale FLETCHER and personally I have issues (one is the wrong version Mk 37 director and no navigation bridge equipment) with the Revell 1/144 scale kit and no interest in building it as is. The last time I looked at components for the 1/144 scale kit was a couple of years ago.

Several guys have at least started builds of 1/144 scale FLETCHERS, including conversions to the Square-Bridge version. Look through the "PICTURE POST" in the "WORKS IN PROGRESS" forum for these projects ... some go back several years so keep looking in that forum. One guy did oil-canning on his hull. From what saw of the Square-Bridge conversion set available (there were issues for most guys that ordered it with poor casting quality control), it would be just about as easy to scratch build one, it could be built up largely with flat pieces of sheet plastic stock.

LoB, which FLETCHER are you modeling? You didn't give a name. Many FLETCHERS had painted out of Dazzle camo by 4 May 1945.

[LoB]

Hello Rick, thank you for your response. I am doing the USS Luce DD-522, my Uncle, John Charles Lake S1C was aboard from the shakedown cruise until her sinking on 4th May, 1945.

The latest photo of her I have seen was taken Oct(?) of 44. She was still wearing her Dazzle camo paint in that photo.

Now the plot thickens . . I just found a photo at this link that is dated May 1945 . . ?? and she looks like she is in Measure 21 Navy Blue camoo. Can this be accurate? She looks awful good in that photo for a ship that has been at war for 10 months . . http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/522.htm

Rick, would the Dazzle scheme be painted over by the crew at sea? Or would it be done in dock? What color is that in the last picture in the link above?

[Rick E Davis]

That last photo of USS LUCE has the wrong date. That photo was taken in September 1943. She still has Mk 49 directors and matches a photo I scanned from a series taken at the same time off the USA east coast. LUCE was painted into dazzle at San Francisco in August 1944.

Here is a close-up photo of USS LUCE taken in February-March 1945. In early 1945 after the order to paint out of dazzle into either Ms 21 or Ms 22 in late 1944, many destroyers in the forward areas repainted into those schemes. The over coat of paint was applied by the crew wherever they were if they had the time or local repair parties if they needed repaired in a floating drydock. You can tell in this image that her "new paint" is already wearing off and the dazzle is showing through. This paint job looks like crew applied "over the side" one to me. If this photo was taken in February 1945, there still was time for her to be "touched" up before her loss in May.

[LoB]

Mr. Davis, you amaze me! I suspected that that photo was dated incorrectly . . this evening I was going to examine it more closely to rule out the May 1945 date . . Where do you find this stuff?? I compared that photo to several I found here: http://usndazzle.com/1Web/Pics/522A.html . . specifically this photo: http://usndazzle.com/1Web/Pics/522B.html . . . I think you are correct, that is most likely the USS Luce repainted . . the colors showing through seem to be the Measure 31/32 "Dazzle" . . . Note that the upper deck seems to still be in the "Dazzle" scheme . . the two 5" guns are still in 5-0 Ocean Gray and the BK Dull Black is evident on the side of the forward deck house . .

Now I have to build TWO 1/144 DD-522s . . one pristine as she sails to war in her fresh new "Dazzle" colors and one as she probably was at her demise . . maybe a Diorama for that one?? Good thing I ordered another Revell 1/144 Fletcher a few days ago from Europe . . .

Sir, is it possible that you may have in your vast repository any later photos of DD-522?? If you do could you share them?? It boggles my mind that she may have gone down in a mish/mash between Measure 31/32 and measure 21 . . . .

Thank you Sir, I can add that photo to my ever increasing folder of DD-522 photos.

BTW, Spruebrothers.com show cast G-Factor 40mm mounts in stock . . http://store.spruebrothers.com/product_p/gfm14402.htm

[snaphappy321]

Hi Rick,
I was searching online for Fletcher photos as I usually do. I came across a color image of a round bridge Fletcher making me think of the Bennett I'm building. I clicked on the image as too my surprise I found it was an image on a book cover and your name on the book. I quickly went to the web site listed with the photo and they didn't do online sales. Thankfully, the ISBN number was listed along with your book. I went to Amazon and found it and instantly bought a copy.

Last night I didn't read the description of the book or how many pages it contained. Even if I've seen all the photos in the book, I wanted to support you and all you've done for me. The photos and information you so freely share have been a great help to me and many others here at the SMF.

I just went to Amazon and this time I read that the book contains 72 pages of mostly unseen photos (4 color and 122 B&W). I know I'm going to love your book and I can't wait to take a look at it.

If anyone is interested in getting a copy it will cost you $22 dollars including S&H: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/098571 ... UTF8&psc=1

Warship Pictorial 42 Round Bridge Fletchers by Rick E. Davis.jpg (12.35 KiB) Viewed 5776 times

Once again, Thanks for everything Rick!!!
Roger DD-473/DD-555

[Rick E Davis]

Thank you. I selected as many photos as possible that had not been published before to illustrate the different configurations of the Round-Bridge FLETCHERS. Steve came up with the color images.

The cover photo is of USS HALFORD (DD-480). This photo and a whole series was ID by someone as being USS O'BANNON (DD-450) in several sources, but others claimed it was USS HALFORD. After studying images of both destroyers, I determined it is definitely HALFORD.

[sandy]

It is a great book, Rick.

Cheers for putting it together. Fantastic to see the great clear photos on paper !!

Now, any time scale on the square bridge one....

All the best
Sandy

[Rick E Davis]

Square-Bridge FLETCHER book is in process ... maybe end of this year.

[PeeJay]

Square-Bridge FLETCHER book is in process ... maybe end of this year.

Great-Looking forward to it. Can't get enough GOOD books about those Fletchers!

PeeJay