Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

[Luca Bevilacqua]

To fight a little distress with my build of 2 Essex class carriers (CV13 and CV14), and to optimise my scarce modelling time, I decided to start a parallel build of a CV2 kit.
I hope that by working in parallel I'll have more time allowed for receiving suggestions and discovering inaccuracies, for both classes, before proceeding too far with the builds.

OK, enough, I have to admit the real story here..
A friend of mine, long time modeller (much better than I am, but unfortunately, for him, prefering aircraft kits ), after losing his job, has started his own business, and now he runs a hobby shop .

He ordered the CV2 1:350 kit becuase he made an error on the ordering code for another kit, and hence he offered the box to me at a substantial discount, just to move the inventory (I do not know in the US, but here ships seem to be the slowest items to sell..)

Needless to say I jumped on the occasion.

I got home, opened the box and got fascinated by the apparent easiness of the build (no hangar deck to open and detail here).
I connected to the net, read again carefully Tracy's CV2 build review and started my own build.
After one almost sleepless night on it, I have to say it seems to be fairly accurate and easy to put together (apart from deck/hull fit problem Tracy already warned about).
I'll let you know how this build goes.

In the meantime let's discover in due time how many inaccuracies this Trumpeter kit presents, and how to best correct them.

Ciao to all

Luca
****************************************************************************************
MODERATOR EDIT:
Didn't realize there wasn't a list of available kits and gallery entries, so here goes (updated 8/27/16):

USS Lexington CV-2 Available kits
(Please note �pre-war� means before US entry into WW2)

1/700:
Trumpeter Lexington (Coral Sea)
Fujimi Lexington (circa 1941)

1/350:
Trumpeter Lexington (Coral Sea)

Gallery Entries:
1/700:
Gabor�s Fujimi Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Chris Smither�s Fujimi Lexington (w/Sara): http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Chris Smither�s Fujimi Lexington (revised): http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Lorenzo Pomini�s Fujimi Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Charlie Patrick�s Fujimi Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Marty Shay�s Fujimi Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Bang Seung Il�s Fujimi Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Erick Navas� Fujimi Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Christoph Mentzel�s Trumpeter Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Lee Jeong Hoon�s Trumpeter Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

John Leyland�s Fujimi Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Mark McKinnis� Trumpeter Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Tam�s Herger�s Trumpeter Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Kostas� Trumpeter Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

William Zammit�s Fujimi Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm

Mike Bridge�s Trumpeter Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm

Marijn Van Gils' Trumpeter Lexington Diorama: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... n-700-mvg/

1/350:
Dave Becker�s Blue Water Navy Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Chuck Witon�s Trumpeter Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Rick Cotton�s Trumpeter Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Craig Lieberman�s Trumpeter Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Martin J Quinn�s Trumpeter Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Chris Smither�s Trumpeter Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Bob Craig�s Trumpeter Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Chris Plum�s Trumpeter Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Yvan Van Impe�s Trumpeter Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Robert Apfelzweig�s Trumpeter Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm

John Cooper�s Trumpeter Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm

Ken Summa�s Trumpeter Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm

Other Scales:
Udo Herre�s 1/200 GPM/Scratchbuilt Lexington: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

[Tracy White]

The bridge and flag levels are incorrect, but we don't have enough information yet to know exactly what is correct. Ron Smith has done some researchand has some good information, but he can't release it yet due to some contractual obligations. We can take best guesses but that's about it.

[Ron Smith]

The bridge and flag levels are incorrect, but we don't have enough information yet to know exactly what is correct. Ron Smith has done some researchand has some good information, but he can't release it yet due to some contractual obligations. We can take best guesses but that's about it.

Classic Warships is working on a book and it will be well worth the wait.

[MartinJQuinn]

I believe that the kit is fairly accurate. I'd look at Tracy's build, see if Martin Quinn has anything to contribute (he did the '42 Lexington and did some scratch building, but not a lot), and take it from there.

Good luck!

-Devin

The model certainly LOOKS like the Lexington when completed. The biggest questions are with the configuration of the island. According to Robert Stern, in "The Lexington Class Carriers", when the Lex was scheduled to get her flag plot extended (this is the level above the navigation bridge), Lex didn't want the same open arrangement that Saratoga had (Sara's flag plot had been extended in the mid-30's). I don't have the text from the book with me at work - I'll look it up tonight and edit this post with what Stern says.

Anyway, it "looks" like Lex had her entire flag plot enclosed, with the forward portion enclosed by bulletproof glass and splinter shielding, which is how Trumpeter elected to depict her. What's definitely wrong here is the "open" portion of the platforms on either side of the flag plot level - they are the wrong shape and it didn't have splinter sheilding (which looks to be about knee high).

Additionally, the range finder was moved from the top of the navigation bridge to the top of the newly extended flag plot (the kit does depict this). There also appears to be another rangefinder or director on top of the spotting top in pictures. One thing I didn't try to correct: The island doesn't have the correct shape - the real ships had more of a curve to the back of the island (supposedly for aerodynamic reasons).

Again, what's been published is all we have to go on now, and using those sources I made some assumptions and finished my model following those quesses. I do not have any original source documents, my hunches were all based on secondary sources and discussions between myself, Tracy White and Ron Smith (both of whom are much more knowledgeable than I).

Here is a list of the things I did to the Trumpeter model:
�The lower hull is a little narrower than the upper hull, and needs to be widened using spreaders to get a snug fit. (I've heard from some modelers that didn't have this problem - test fit your hull first if you are building her full hull).

�My hull was warped, which gave me trouble when fitting the flight deck � I had to fit the flight deck one section at a time, which let to other issues (seams between the 3 pieces of the deck).

�I found the splinter shields for the 1.1 inch (28mm) gun tubs (the ones which replaced the 8 inch gun mounts) too shallow and replaced them with spare gun tubs from my YMW Lexington. Also, pictures clearly show bracing on the outside of these tubs. The YMW tubs have bracing, but I added more. I also deleted the Mk 44 director from the 1.1 gun tub directly in front of the island - it didn't look like the two 1.1s and the director could realistically fit in that tub.

�The splinter shields for the 20mm platforms in the boat pockets are too shallow. I replaced these with brass strip. These also had bracing on the outside of the tubs, which I added with plastic strip.

�As previously mentioned, the shape of the rear of the flag plot platform on the island is incorrect (it should flare out from the bridge), plus Trumpeter omitted the searchlight platforms on the roof of the flag plot. The searchlights should be bumped up a level and a pair of signal lamps added to the navigation level - you'll have to scratchbuild the searchlight platforms on the flag plot level. I also added a rangerfinder to the top of the spotting top - though my "quess" is that this may be a Mk 44 director for the 1.1 guns.

�The rear legs for the Trumpeter supplied tripod foremast look �stepped�, since Trumpeter elected to seperate these into two pieces per side. These legs should be continuous, so I replaced them with brass rod.

�The funnel cap is the wrong shape and too wide. Trumpeter molded this piece with �wings� that don�t belong there. The actual funnel cap was curved, not flat, and Trumpeter replicated the curve with these wings. Sand them back till they are closer to the funnel sides.

�The island is too far inboard from the side of the ship. I removed the molded on guides from the flight deck, re-scribed the flight deck and moved it to the correct position.

�The rudder has the right profile, but is the wrong width and shape when viewed from behind. I made it wider to more accurately reflect the correct shape.

Also prominently missing from the kit is the degaussing cable that appears to go all the way around the hull. Since I couldn't find any proper documentation for this, I elected to leave it off.

Do you have to make all these changes? Of course not. It's your model, and will build into an impressive model directly out of the box. However, "Queen of the Flat Tops" was one of the first books I ever remembering reading as a kid. After reading that book, I fell in love with the Lady Lex. I've waited my entire adult life for a 1/350 Lexington, so I eagerly bought the Blue Water Navy version when it came out. However, in my opinion, that version is only correct for the Lexington prior to her short March/April 1942 refit, and then only when you use the 8 inch gun mounts.

So, when Trumpeter announced a May 1942 version of the Lexington, I was probably the only person who was happy about it. Therefore, I went as far as my middle-of-the-road modeling skills would take me, and did the old gal up as best I could. I still have to complete the air group - but need to check to see if Lex's planes had white or black squadron markings on the fuselage before proceeding. The YMW decals have black markings, but I've seen some things that indicate they were white.

Eventually I plan to build the YMW kit - which is a magnificent model and is beautifully cast - as a waterline February 1942 version of the Lexington, in Ms 12. I know Wipers "Lexington-class" pictorial dates the picture of the Lex in Ms 12 as August 1941, but I think that's wrong. The planes appear to have red and white rudder stripes, which weren't in use in August 1941 - they were ordered painted on the planes in late December 1941/Janury 1942 (IIRC). (He also has a picture captioned as the "triumphant return of the strike group from the sinking of the Shoho". If you look closely, those planes are F6Fs with 1944 era markings).

Anyway - that's my non-expert take on the Trumpeter Lexington. It needs some work, but it is impressive when finished. Hope this helps. I'll be happy to answer any questions you have.

[MartinJQuinn]

Ok, here are some shots of the Lex, one in late 1941 and one the day she was lost, that show some of the differences in the bridge layout.

http://www.history.navy.mil/our-collect ... 16362.html

In this top photo, you can see the rangefinder on top of the pilot house. Notice the 8 inch gun mounts are still aboard - these were not removed until the March/April 1942 refit. You can barely make out that the bridge flag plot HAS NOT been extended.

Also, the Aviation Control/Secondary Conn Station on the front of the funnel has been removed and replaced with the radar shack. It looks like the censor removed the CXAM-1 radar from this picture, it was installed earlier in the year (June, IIRC)...you can see the raised funnel cap that Halsey asked to be installed, lest the heat from the funnel gases interfere with the radar.

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/OnlineL ... h76560.jpg

Above: Here is the famous "last operational photo" of the Lady on 5/8/42. Prominently missing are the 8 inch gun mounts, replaced with 1.1 (28mm) AA guns. You can also see the platform with the 20mm guns in the old boat pocket on the starboard side. Other items: The aft fire control station on the mainmast (on the aft end of the funnel) is gone, replaced with 20mm guns and directors.

What isn't apparent is the shape of the flag plot. It appears to have been extended and enclosed right up to the edges of the platform, which has been extended over the pilot house, as mentioned in Stern's book. I believe the lighter color along the flag plot platform are canvas dodgers on the railings, NOT splinter sheilding. In AA Hoeling's "The Lexington Goes Down", he makes mention of canvas on the island railings.

The 20ft randfinder (I think that's what it is) has been moved to the top of the newly enlarged flag plot. Take a look at the top of the forward fire control station/spotting top - it looks like something is there too, replacing the small enclosed space that was here before. This is where I made a leap of faith and placed a small rangefinder on the top of my model. According to Stern, Saratoga had a FC radar installed here during her late 1941 refit, to control her 8 inch guns. Since Lex no longer had her 8 inch mounts at this point, I don't believe that's what this is. It's either the small randerfinder I mounted, or perhaps a Mk 44 director for the 1.1s.

Now let's take a look at the Saratoga....

http://www.history.navy.mil/our-collect ... 51292.html

She and Lex were identical when launched, but by the early-1930's, Sara had a slightly different island. Her flag plot was enlarged and the DF room (the "chin" of the spotting top) was removed to make room for the re-spotted rangefinder.

See how the flag plot is longer than in the 1st picture of the Lex, and has the 20ft rangefinder on it's roof? Notice the open walkway around the front of the flag plot? It's this configuration that Stern says the Lexington found unsatisfactory and wanted enclosed.

Moderator Edit: Original links to photos broken. Click the new links to see the photos referenced.

[MartinJQuinn]

Okay, here is what Robert Stern has to say about the bridge configuration for the Lexington. This is from page 53 of his excellent (IMO) book, "The Lexington Class Carriers"...

With Saratoga out of the war for the immeadiate future, Lexington had no opportunity to schedule her own long-overdue reconstruction. The best that she could do was a short visit to the yard at Pearl Harbor in late March 1942, when it was planned to extend her flag bridge structures to resemble Saratoga's (as they looked prior to her 1942 rebuild). Lexington did not like the fact Saratoga's flag bridge walkway was exposed to the weather; Lexington wanted the entire structure enclosed by STS and shatterproof glass. BuShips only comment was that the work was to proceed on a 'not to delay' basis.

That proves nothing, but if the work proceeded as requested, then that's part of reason Trumpeter molded the bridge the way they did.

[Dan K]

Let me tell you that Martin is being far too modest about his modeling skills is a vis the Lex. I had the opportunity to view his Lexington at the recent MosquitonCon and was extremely envious of his build (I'm not kidding, Marty). It's beautifully done and he's made some extremely well-informed decisions/choices about the details. I spent a fair amount of time examining it (when he wasn't looking).

I'm another guy who fell for the Lady Lex as a kid after reading Queen of the Flattops. I follow these Lex threads all the time. If I wasn't so wrapped in 1/700 IJN stuff, I would be building her using Martin's guidelines. One day.

[Guest]

Martin, et al.

You are correct that the YMW markings are wrong for any point in her Air Group's WWII career - the solution is, of all things, to use the Yorktown set which has white numbers that she never used! The Lexington Air Group used the following markings FORWARD of the fuselage star:

VF-2: white F-#
CLAG: white CLAG
VS-2: white S-#
VB-2: white B-#
VT-2: white T-#

Note, that the LIVE Mk XIII aerial torpedo has a painted grey warhead and a bright shinny steel body that, with any sun, stands out like polished brass.

Hope this helps - and I'll be happy to answer any other questions you may have on her for that period.

Mark E. Horan
mhoran@snet.net

[MartinJQuinn]

You are correct that the YMW markings are wrong for any point in her Air Group's WWII career - the solution is, of all things, to use the Yorktown set which has white numbers that she never used! The Lexington Air Group used the following markings FORWARD of the fuselage star:

VF-2: white F-#
CLAG: white CLAG
VS-2: white S-#
VB-2: white B-#
VT-2: white T-#

Mark E. Horan
mhoran@snet.net

So, by the time of the Coral Sea, had the Lex dispensed with the "2" Air Group code before the squadron and aircraft codes, correct? Which means, using the attached picture of an overall light grey F4F from the Saratoga as an example, the "3" would have been deleted/painted over by the time of the Coral Sea, correct? A yes answer will make my pirating of the white numbers from the Yorktown decal sheet much easier!

Edited By Tracy: on the following page look at photo NH 97485
http://www.history.navy.mil/our-collect ... 97485.html

[Guest]

Martin;

Yes, you are correct. At the time the photo you posted was taken the aircraft were still marked in the pre-war format of SQN#-TYPE-AC# [THREE - FIGHTER - AC#9]. Per PacFlt orders, the squadron ID number (the number before the squadron type code) was deleted well before Coral Sea.

Thus you only need two of each number for each squadron (one on each side). This is assuming that you don't want to put the tiny numbers on the leading edge of the wings, and front of the cowling [Please tell me you are not that nuts ]

I was more than a little bit staggered when I saw one chap put the antenna wires on each SBD on a CV model he built - mostly because I didn't think I could see stuff that small any more!

And in regards to the comment above that at Midway the Yorktown F4F-4s of VF-3 were marked in white, that is true. VF-3, being a Saratoga Squadron was marked per the directiveds of her CarDiv, in white and the Yorktown Air Department was too busy getting the ship repaired and the F4F guns bore sighted to repaint them.

One further note, having noticed a lot of other folks CV-2 models on the .net have F4Fs with wings folded on display, In WWII the Lexington only carried F4F-3s (or F2A-3s prior to them coming aboard), neither of which had folding wings.

Again, I hope this helps.

Mark

[Luca Bevilacqua]

Hi guys,

I am sorry, but I cannot see any longer the photos on Martin Quinn excellent post. May be my company's new firewall, is causing problems ?

Thanks to Martin, wowever I realised what type of corrections the CV2 kit needs to get to be more historically correct.

Unfortunately I had already assembled the whole island OOB (the kit goes together quite easily) and correcting now would risk ruining it.

So a tought came to my mind : if I just buy a second kit ...
Since quality dual 5" turrets and 40 mm bofors can be easily sourced from l'Arsenal I could use the built bridge to do a 1944/45 CV3 and rebuild the second kit island along Martin's suggestion for a more correct 1942 CV3.

Wife will file for divorce, tough....
anyone willing to offer help along this line of growing folly ?

Ciao and thanks in advance
Yours
Luca

[Devin]

from l'Arsenal I could use the built bridge to do a 1944/45 CV3 and rebuild the second kit island along Martin's suggestion for a more correct 1942 CV3.

There is very little common between an early war Lexington and a late war Saratoga. They really are two totally different ships by that point; even the hull is dramatically different. Just going off the top of my head, by late war Sara's stack had been shortened, the platforms where Lex had her 1.1" guns had been were altered for the 5" mounts, and countless other modifications to the island.

-Devin

[MartinJQuinn]

Hi guys,

I am sorry, but I cannot see any longer the photos on Martin Quinn excellent post. May be my company's new firewall, is causing problems ?

Thanks to Martin, wowever I realised what type of corrections the CV2 kit needs to get to be more historically correct.

Unfortunately I had already assembled the whole island OOB (the kit goes together quite easily) and correcting now would risk ruining it.

The most offending parts are the platforms aft of the enclosed flag bridge, you could snap these off and replace them with plastic card, which is what I did. These did not have splinter sheilds, but canvas covered rails - so the knee high Trumpeter sheilds should go anyway.

So a tought came to my mind : if I just buy a second kit ...
Since quality dual 5" turrets and 40 mm bofors can be easily sourced from l'Arsenal I could use the built bridge to do a 1944/45 CV3 and rebuild the second kit island along Martin's suggestion for a more correct 1942 CV3.

Wife will file for divorce, tough....
anyone willing to offer help along this line of growing folly ?

Ciao and thanks in advance
Yours
Luca

Women are in abundant supply, you can always find another

Seriously...Devin is right, the 1942 Lexington and 1944 Saratoga are substantially different. Sara got all the bells and whistles that Lex would have if she hadn't run into a few torpedoes and lost her fire mains in the Coral Sea.

The Saratoga's island is remarkably similar to the 1942 version, the main difference (other than the fact that Sara and Lex had much different flag bridges) being that the tripod main mast and spotting top are gone, and an open bridge with a Mk37 director added on top of the flag bridge level.

Additionally, Sara had her stack cut down, a HUGE blister added to her starboard side and a smaller blister on her port side. Interesting note: pre-war these ship always kept more fuel oil on one side of the ship (I believe it was the port side tanks) to compensate for the weight of the island and funnel. This prevented them from using all their fuel (that factoid came from Stern's book).

Sara also had her AA fit constantly upgraded. When rebuilt, she had a myriad of 20mm guns along her flight deck, by her 1944 refit, her commanding officer asked for more 40mms. Not only that, but the sponsons and gun tubs at the bow were reportedly different from the Lex's as well - but I've never been able to discern the differences from photos.

If it was me, I'd try to make what corrections you could - changing the platforms on the flag bridge and adding the searchlight platforms of the roof of said bridge. For what it's worth, my bridge was already done when I decided to rip the kit supplied struts off and add brass rod. I almost wrecked the bridge, but copious amounts of super glue saved the day...

[Blue Devil]

OK, maybe I've been thinking too hard. But it seems to me that one thing everyone points out about the Trumpy Lexington is that it has four bladed screws instead of the proper three blades. SOOOOO... assuming the diameter is similar, how about using the kit props from the Hood (since the Hood upgrade comes with etched props)?

Just a thought...

BD

[Avery Boyer]

Does anyone know if trumpeter is going to do a late war Saratoga in 1/700. It's become pretty obvious that they won't in 1/350 due to all the work they'd have to do. It would have to be almost a completley new kit.

Also, would the Trumpy early fit Sara work okay for a Lex of the same period, other then decals? How much work would it take to modify?

[mark pfaff]

Hi all
Can anyone tell me what the 4 large rectangular openings on the stern are? With the quarter deck and the flight deck on I can see into the hull and I'm wondering if I should put something inside so you can't see through to the other side.
Thanks Mark

[Charles Landrum]

The recesses are correct and represent doors that folded down. I would have to check my plans for the exact function, but the space was a work shop. So if you wanted to open these doors, fold them down. But it hardly seems worth the trouble since I have never seen a picture of the space configuration. HTH

[Devin]

This is a wild guess here, but could it be the aircraft engine shop? On the Yorktown and Essex class, they has special shops and outside areas at the after most part of the hangar deck to repair and test run aircraft engines.

-Devin

[Elvis965]

Avery: Fujimi makes a late war 1/700 Sara. Martin has one in the gallery here:

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

I would think you could build an early Lex from the Trumpy 1/350 Sara quite easily. I'm not sure exactly what year Trumpy is making Sara in, but when they were built I think the only difference was Sara had a catwalk on the outboard side of the funnel. Sara also had 2 searchlights on the outboard side of the funnel, but I'm not sure if Lex had those or not.

If you can get your hands on a copy of Robert Stern's "Lexington Class Carriers", Steve Wiper's "Warship Pictorial #11" (no easy chore for either, believe me), or John Fry's "USS Saratoga: An Illustrated History", you can see some nice pics of the catwalk.

[MartinJQuinn]

I would think you could build an early Lex from the Trumpy 1/350 Sara quite easily. I'm not sure exactly what year Trumpy is making Sara in, but when they were built I think the only difference was Sara had a catwalk on the outboard side of the funnel. Sara also had 2 searchlights on the outboard side of the funnel, but I'm not sure if Lex had those or not.

The Sara had her flag bridge extended in 1933 (or so), which is the year the Trumpy version is supposedly going to represent. That - off the top of my head without any pictures in front of me - is the biggest difference between the two sisters at that point. So, if you change the flag level, it would be possible to build a pre-1935 Lexington, incorporating any other changes revealed by research.

If you can get your hands on a copy of Robert Stern's "Lexington Class Carriers", Steve Wiper's "Warship Pictorial #11" (no easy chore for either, believe me), or John Fry's "USS Saratoga: An Illustrated History", you can see some nice pics of the catwalk.

Both books are recommended, especially the Stern book, which details the changes the ships went through.