1/144 Scale USS STODDARD (DD-566) - Kitbash, Revell FLETCHER

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Re: 1/144 Scale USS STODDARD (DD-566) - Kitbash, Revell FLET

Post by BB62vet »

I've been doing quite a bit of 3D parts design/printing recently, as well as various modifications to the several deckhouses. Last week I started design of the RADAR platform and service platforms that make up the forward mast assembly. With Tom Falley's assistance to help with my screw-ups ( :doh_1: ) I've been able to get quite a bit done to date. I am thinking about making the entire mast assembly in two main parts - the platforms and above as one unit and the tripod legs/support braces as another separate unit. I'm also designing the various lamps, instruments, etc. as separate part files in order to print multiple items with a certain amount of leeway in scale due to resin shrinkage during printing. Anyhow, here's a design shot of the work in progress:
Progress - RADAR Service Platform.JPG
Progress - RADAR Service Platform_2.JPG
There is quite a bit of work to do, so this is far from complete. In addition, support struts may be modified as this is still a "work in progress"!

Hank
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48
Fliger747
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS STODDARD (DD-566) - Kitbash, Revell FLET

Post by Fliger747 »

Though not visible from this angle there is an involved set of supporting beams on the underside of the platforms which will add a lot to the realism. Good job Hank! Looking forward to the pieces coming together.

Tom
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS STODDARD (DD-566) - Kitbash, Revell FLET

Post by BB62vet »

Tom,

Yes, the underside has quite a bit of detail - and thanks to your DSM know-how, I've been able to continue on that file and hopefully soon get it to a point where it can be printed.

Along those lines, I've been working also on design/printing of 3D parts for the various RADARs, antennas, and support structures, etc. I could just as well make a lot of this by hand, but to tell the truth - the 3D parts are more precise, detailed, and simply look better!! So, here are some design photos of the parts I've been working on:
AS-390 SRC Comm Antenna.JPG
NT 66132.JPG
NT-66131 (2).JPG
Quite a few others, but they are still in progress. I did print these three today and surprisingly enough, 2 of them actually came out in useable form:
3D Printed Antennae.jpg
As a point of reference, the flash drive is 2 3/4" long. I need to go back and do some refinement to the NT 66131 antenna as it didn't print. I was completely shocked that the AS-390 and NT 66132 DID print correctly and with such fine lines. The TDQ NT 66095 did print very well so that was a pleasant surprise, as well. I will have to double check the sizes as this is one of the factors in 3D printing - the need to slightly oversize very tiny items in order to get an acceptable part. I have drawn up most of the various ship's lights and their supports and will do so throughout the model.

I also removed all the kit molded closed chocks today and sanded their attachment points on the hull. These will be replaced with 3D printed chocks which are properly sized for the scale of the model.
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48
Fliger747
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS STODDARD (DD-566) - Kitbash, Revell FLET

Post by Fliger747 »

Hank:

Your ship will be quite distinctive with all of the custom, accurate parts you are making!

Looking forward to further progress!

Tom
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS STODDARD (DD-566) - Kitbash, Revell FLET

Post by BB62vet »

Tom,

Well, I certainly hope that this 3d R&D will pay off in the long run!! I think it will given I'm under no time constraints on this model and can basically do as I please with its construction.

Over the last couple days I've been refining my antennas in order to get them to print correctly - this is where the scaling factor comes in. At this point, I've been able to print out everything I've designed at least twice so I've got enough on hand to move on to other items, etc. Along those lines I've been creating a couple deck pumps which I had already constructed by hand, but now have much more detailed items to use in their place. In addition, I've redone the round & oval scuttles and after hatch in order to further enhance the handwheel on the tops of each part. Here are design snips of the part prior to printing and then a photo of the printed items:
P250 Pump.JPG
P500 Pump.JPG
Revised After Hatch.JPG
P250-Aft Hatch-P500.jpg
I will use the same part (After Hatch) up fwd on the focs'le after sanding the base of the hatch at an angle to match the molded kit part.

So, I am building up an inventory in a plastic parts box of all these tiny parts to be used when the time comes for them to be installed on the model. And, believe it or not - I'm actually learning something every day about this new 3D "tool" - a nice complement to the modeler's tool box.

Hank
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS STODDARD (DD-566) - Kitbash, Revell FLET

Post by Fliger747 »

Hank:

Good job! Persistence pays off, even in the lottery... All of your unique Stoddard bits and pieces will make for a very unique model!

Cheers: Tom
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS STODDARD (DD-566) - Kitbash, Revell FLET

Post by BB62vet »

Thanks Tom!!

Well, this afternoon I drew up a new after hatch from the TFD Plan Book & o.h. foc'sle photo of ISHERWOOD - the result is a hatch with the corner davit pipe socket, a raised scuttle, end grab bars, and the bar brace for when the hatch cover is opened. Here is the photo of the design and then a photo of 8 of these little dudes - they did come out just about 95% and that's an accomplishment! One of the original hatch units is shown at the bottom left:
After Hatch wOpen Scuttle & Brace.JPG
Aft Hatch wOpen Scuttle_1.jpg
I've now also designed the forward hatch in like fashion:
Fwd Hatch wOpen Scuttle & Brace Bar.JPG
After a minor design mod. I'll try printing the forward hatch(s) tomorrow.

Hank
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48
Fliger747
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS STODDARD (DD-566) - Kitbash, Revell FLET

Post by Fliger747 »

Hank:

Looking forward to completion of some sub assemblies. Always a satisfying achievement, some small portion of the ship letting us imagine what the whole will be. I understand that you have your paints for the interior of the detailed pilot house, once this is done considerable further progress will be at hand. Sometimes these things take on a years long time line of their own, but you are making good progress!

Cheers: Tom
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS STODDARD (DD-566) - Kitbash, Revell FLET

Post by BB62vet »

Tom,

Thanks for commenting - always enjoy the verbal support. As you well know, I've been working on 3D parts design for various and sundry items for this build. At this point I have parts now printed for the following:
Chocks, Bitts, Pumps, Fairleads, Round sm/lg deck vents, all whip antennas with mounts, pilot house railings, R/S Room/Spud Deck railings, bulkhead cleats/rings, Navigation Sidelights, round/oval deck scuttles, escape scuttle, fore/aft hatches, Windless Control Box, torpedo deck railings, all the T-Mk. 6 Fanfare equipment parts, and have designs in progress for the main tripod mast, 01 Level After deckhouse railings, and now the 3"/50 dual R.F. mount foundations. I will not need to create the guns themselves as Willie and I have made arrangements (as former NATO Vets :cool_2: ) to exchange parts for our concurrent builds. However, even without the gun assemblies in place, the mount foundations, gun carriages, and all assoc. equipment, etc. are going to be quite a design effort.

Here is the 1st edition of the basic foundation as printed today @ 1/144 scale (28mm wide):
1st Test Print Mount_1.jpg
This will go thru several versions until I have all the assoc. equipment, etc. in place. Comparing this with the styrene handmade foundations, I'm quite certain that this is the route to use as these will be much more accurate & detailed than I could make by hand. Another item mentioned above, the T-Mk. 6 Fanfare Noisemaker is now part of my parts inventory. Here it is just after printing once the supports were removed:
Fanfare Removed from Supports.jpg
I have now printed all the parts that go with it - Shield, Fanfare Decoys, Life Rings,etc. One of the more interesting designs was the work Tom & I shared on designing the main deck fore & aft hatches. The final version has a 120� open scuttle with inside/outside handwheels - just like the real deal. This photo shows the part after a 1st coat of paint:
Painted Hatches & Fanfare Shield.jpg
I'll do touch up on painting soon enough. So, these little items, generally not available on the 3rd party market, are now in my parts box - with only a small bit of cleaning up and painting to be ready for installation.
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48
Fliger747
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS STODDARD (DD-566) - Kitbash, Revell FLET

Post by Fliger747 »

Hank:

I suppose the Fanfare played a version of Arron Copeland's "Fanfare for the Common Ship"? Those look good Hank, in person and on the ship even better. As you are finding this can be little addicting and one can keep searching for more and more details, to where finally the work bench looks much like a real shipyard with stuff piled everywhere.

Looking forward to seeing the 3"50 mounts when you get all the pieces!

Cheers: Tom
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS STODDARD (DD-566) - Kitbash, Revell FLET

Post by BB62vet »

Tom,

Well, I was thinking of "Ride of the Valkyries" (Wagner), but I'll take the "Fanfare of the Common Man" as a substitute :heh:

As I mentioned in my last update, I am working on creating the foundations for the 3"/50 Dual R.F. gun mounts as Willie and I will be sharing parts for various things on our respective builds. I have now made 2 editions of the foundation and it will require further work and additional equipment, but here is a 3D design photo for the part:
3in50 Gun Mount Foundation_5.JPG
The three magazine platforms have been moved to a separate design file so I can print them as separate objects - these need only some minor adjustments for final printing. There is a whole slew of parts that make up this gun mount - and none of these are simple affairs. The last 2 days I have been creating some of these articles and have a few that I can share design photos:
Gun Laying One Man Control Unit.JPG
There is one of these control units on each side of the mount.
Gun Laying One Control Panel & Pedistal.JPG
This unit is located on the right side of the mount - I will have to size this to scale once I make an initial print of it.

I don't know how long it will take to design everything needed to build this mount, but I will (and AM) having to simplify some of the items as this mount is a very complicated pieces of equipment. Perhaps that is why no one doing 3D parts has tackled it (exception being smaller scaled versions by Veteran Models). As for the model, I've done a bit of modifying the kit propeller shaft bracing and should be able to finish those items next week.
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS STODDARD (DD-566) - Kitbash, Revell FLET

Post by steinerman »

Wow, Hank, you're really going to town on all this added 3D stuff. And you accuse me of adding too Much detail!!!!!!

Looks super, though. This is going to be one awesome piece of work when (if?) you ever finish it!!
Larry Steiner


Completed: 1:200 USS Missouri (Monster Mo)
Next project: Definitely NOT another big ship!!
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BB62vet
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS STODDARD (DD-566) - Kitbash, Revell FLET

Post by BB62vet »

Larry,

Thanks so much!!! Yes, I'm hoping to complete it by next (2022) fall in order to take it with me to the STODDARD reunion (tentative, of course :whistle:) However, I'm not under any gun to do so - my own timetable. Having the reunion postponed actually helped me out!!

Later,

Hank
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48
Fliger747
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS STODDARD (DD-566) - Kitbash, Revell FLET

Post by Fliger747 »

Hank:

Actually it seems as if you are making very steady progress. A lot of hours going into those three 3" 50 mounts! There has been a time consuming learning curve, but you are cranking out a good quantity of small, unique, detail parts. Perhaps a little detour, but very much Stoddard!

Cheers: Tom
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS STODDARD (DD-566) - Kitbash, Revell FLET

Post by Rick E Davis »

Hank,

You are tackling one of the most complex gun weapons I know of. There are all kinds of controls, gears, piping, electrical, etc all over these guns. Damn, if you master this thing, and you can make a 1/350 scale version, you could sell a bunch of them (to me anyway :big_grin: ). That is if you don't go insane first. :doh_1:

I actually, have had a vision of one of these gun mounts being overhauled, and the sailors that were working on it looking at this pile of leftover parts AFTER they were done, scratching their heads.

Image

Image

Image
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS STODDARD (DD-566) - Kitbash, Revell FLET

Post by BB62vet »

Rick,
Thanks so very much for the kind remarks and input - and ESPECIALLY those photos (I have the last one, but it's a small one, so this is a BIG help!!! :thumbs_up_1: ).

Well, I agree - this is a VERY large challenge - so, in order to make these parts (at least, fairly accurate at the smaller scale of 1/144) one has to decide how much detail is acceptable, and what are your printing capabilities. At this point, Tom & I are both learning how much can actually be printed with the fairly low-end 3D printers we are using (Phrozen Sonic Mini 4K). Include with us Pascal (Iceman29) who is also using this particular printer, but designing with a much higher level 3D program than Tom & I are using.

I am using the TFD Ord. Pamphlet for the 3"/50 RF dual mount and the top/side drawings as the basis - so, these are 92mm wide which, when reduced to 1/144 scale is a part 31.52mm wide, so I figured that a lot of the detail I was designing into it would be lost. Not necessarily so as I am finding out. So, in creating these additional parts I am actually adding in some of the finer details I left off the basic foundation & gun carriage. I may go back and redo some of the earlier part of the basic structure to include things such as nuts and so forth that I left off (never leave your nuts off!!!). This pamphlet's drawings unfortunately do not include many of the ancillary items that actually make up the entire gun mount (as shown in the photos), so with these I am having to "guesstimate" their sizes. I am also printing these as separate items so I can control both the amount of detail, size, and be able to adjust the printing orientation to allow for the best print possible. Orientation at the printing end is very important in this medium - get it wrong and you won't get your part!! Another aspect of this process is the type of resin you use for printing - Tom and I are using different resins (same mfgr.) and they do produce different results. So, we're learning which ones work best for solid items and which work best for long, linear items (handrails, yardarms, etc.). This is a total learning process.

At the present time I'm a bit on hold until I receive the gun barrels/assemblies from Willie as these will need to be dimensioned so that my gun carriage is sized correctly for those particular parts. I can, however, still proceed on items located on the right, front of the mount which don't involve the guns themselves.

Rick, you mentioned 1/350th scale - you are aware that Veterans Models makes a 1/350th scaled dual 3"/50 mount, right? And, I might add - a rather impressive one at that!! Don't know what they sell for or who has them for sale; I've actually thought of purchasing one unit simply for reference, but haven't pursued that at this time.

Personally, I think that 3D printed parts ARE the future of plastic modeling - there is just SO much more that can be designed into these parts than by the old molded method it's simply astounding! With time, I think the evolution will move to more "user friendly" materials - this medium is still in its infancy. Just my opinion, and we all know what THAT's worth!!! :big_grin:

This particular build has taken me down some different paths and in doing so I'm learning what can & can't be made with this medium. I'm not all that happy with the Revell kit anchor "chains" they provide and may explore creating these also in 3D. This is where having the printed version of TFD FLETCHER Plan Book comes in handy: A dimensioned anchor chain link right in front of me - NOT taking up valuable computer screen space.OLD SCHOOL assisting new tech - right?!!!

Hank
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS STODDARD (DD-566) - Kitbash, Revell FLET

Post by Iceman 29 »

Thank you Rick for these beautiful photos, very useful!

Nice job Hank. :cool_1:
Pascal

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�SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
�SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
�USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
�USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS STODDARD (DD-566) - Kitbash, Revell FLET

Post by Fliger747 »

Hank:

Send me the dimensions of the 3" 50 barrels, I might have a crack at designing and printing them. You could tweak and resize to fit. I surprisingly had decent luck printing the .30 cal BMG barrels, with cooling holes on the shroud showing! In 1:144 they would be similar in size to the 1;192 5" 38 barrels I did for Alaska and Missouri, which came out well. After looking at your panels for the 3" mounts, I might go back and do some bridge instruments for the APA. Sometimes it takes a little experimentation, but I did print what I thought were quite nice Orlikon's in 1:192 for Alaska.

My dad's ship carried LCVP's, I might make one for his birthday, (96) a little larger than the one's for the APA and number it to his ship #96.

Glad you pressed on with this printing, a bit of a frustrating learning curve at first!

Regards: Tom
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS STODDARD (DD-566) - Kitbash, Revell FLET

Post by Rick E Davis »

Hank,

Yes I'm aware of Veteran's twin 3-in/50 RFG mounts. I have one box of them and have looked at them. They are hard to find at times, being are out-of-stock a lot of the time. I bought one box to "evaluate" them. They look nice sitting in the box as parts, but after my experience with their quad 1.1-in mounts, that I tried to assemble and gave up (destroying a couple of them), and then with 5-in/38 open mounts (with some success but a real pain trying to get the front shield in place and "staying" attached) I'm unsure if I can assemble them and look "good". Why do so many resin makers assume that parts can be cemented on razor thin edges? As an engineer, I really think most resin (and PE) parts can be deigned to actually "fit" together to make a good looking final product. With really nice 3-D printed versions of both the quad 1.1-in mount and 5-in/38 open mount from Black Cat, I won't bother getting anymore Veteran's versions of those two items.

Resin items like these have really brittle thin parts, and even though not counting the PE rails, have like only six parts for each twin 3-in RFG mount to assemble, I'm concerned about alignment of the barrels, etc. I know I will need to make an "alignment jig" to successfully put these together, even so I wouldn't be surprised out of the four in the box, I would be lucky to get three made ... lucky to. So, they have been sitting there while I worked on other projects. With the 1/350 scale DES MOINES kits, I'm "hoping" some 3-D printer outfit makes them as replacement parts (the kit twin 3-in mounts don't impress). I need several of the twin mounts and single mounts so I can modify besides FLETCHER kits, GEARING kits to the 1950's. They don't need to have every detail seen in the photos, but some "texture" showing the complex nature of them would be nice. :big_grin:

Something I have come to a conclusion about with 3-D printed parts, Black Cat has really gone to a whole new level of VERY FINE detail that is impressive. I love them. I never thought I would see tripod mount 20-mm guns for single and twin mounts, but they did it!!! But, that detail can come at a cost (beyond real money cost), of being so fine you REALLY need to be CAREFUL about handling them. In some cases, going a little over-scale isn't a bad thing. Particularly where it can't be seen. Even gun barrels in scale (like 20-mm) can be made a bit over-scale in my opinion so that they are more durable in the build process.
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS STODDARD (DD-566) - Kitbash, Revell FLET

Post by Fliger747 »

The degree of brittleness is somewhat dependent on the resin used (For SLA items) and the degree of curing. I made a shipload of 20 mm singles in 1:192 and I would rate them better for handling as a single printed item than one's assembled from PE etc. Barrels, whip antennas etc benefit from having a degree of flexibility, you can drop one on a hard floor and it bounces, or brush against something on the ship and it just bounce back. This is my experience with the ABS resin that I am using. But yes, sometimes items do need to be a little overscale for printability or other practical reasons. I have had difficulty with railings either not printing well or being so flexible as to present attachment issues (think cooked spaghetti). Items such as grab rails on 1:192 MK37's or 5: 38 twin mounts can add a lot of nice detail but are a bit "munchable". What I don't see currently is much of an affordable commercial production as these things, when approaching the limits, are quite labor and time intensive.

An advancing technology, what I can do now at home is much better than commercial (and not cheap) parts from just a couple of years ago!

Regards: Tom
Last edited by Fliger747 on Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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