The Ship Model Forum

Kirishima 1942
Buggard if I can see any photos of her
With a degaussing cable

Am I right she never had one

Profile moroski plans show one
But my 3d book does not
Nor can I find any photo evidence

Ideas?

All IJN capital ships were fitted with a degaussing cable in the latter half of 1941.

The photo evidence is spotty because there are few photos, particularly close-ups, of Kirishima in the late 1941-'42 timeframe.

This is the best one I know of, and it's just not close enough for that detail.

Ironically I just found a photo of
Hiei wreck and it clearly shows one
Not a single cable either but a number
Of them
As she is sister ship pretty good bet
Kirishima had one too

I'm going to put one on

I am certain that I have asked this before…

But does anyone make a 1/700 IJN Haruna in a 1939, 1940, 1941, or 1942 Outfit?

It seems that the ship is only made in 1944 outfit.

And if no such model is made, what are the parts needed to make one, either kitbash or via scratch-building the required components?

MB

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Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16

To the best of my knowledge, there is no pre/early war version of Haruna. Aside from AA, most changes to backdating her would involve rebuilding, and raising, the upper bridge. I'm sure there's more, but this is the biggest challenge.

Interesting ships! The Kongo's were possibly the most used and useful Japanese "Battleships". With such utility came hazard the the wages that go with that use. In reality they were more battlecruisers, very similar in tonnage and main armament power to the USN Alaska's. In their most useful role they were the fast carrier escorts to fend off and surface threats from opposing forces. In pre war USN planning they played an important role in devising possible tactics. Their usage really became the template for the escorting fast battleships of Task Force's. An irony, as built and utilized an Alaska was entirely as useful as an Iowa.

The Kongo's had the major defect of a Battlecruiser, insufficient armor to stand up to a real battleship. Washington devastated Krishima fatally with her first salvo, originally though to have ben a "short" but may have penetrated 5 times below the armor belt. Her 9" belt was insufficient to stop the 2700# super heavy 16" AP shells at almost any range.

In the age of the carrier fast cruiser killers, especially if they could add sufficient AA proved their worth.

You have to keep in mind that the Kongos actually were designed and began life as battlecruisers. They were reconstructed twice, in the late 20x and mid 30s, with enough improvements for the Japanese to consider them fast battleships. They certainly were the most used and useful of the Japanese BBs.

For me, Kirishima was the epitome of a Japanese battleship. She is my favorite.

Indeed! Much in the way that Hood was upgraded over the years. The Yamato's were the only really modern ships and to large too risk. A ship not worth risking is of no value at all. That Nimitz sent "Ching" Lee into the tight waters off Guadalcanal was certainly a calculated risk, the kind you might use when you need the Hail Mary pass.

Hello everybody

Because I just started to build IJN Kongo from polish publisher Angraf/Answer paper model 1:200 i'm looking for everything about hull platting (as build) because I want to make an imitation hull pllating and arrangement of hull openings in underwater part of hull. Maybe from similar british battleship.
Thanks
Best regards

Personally, I don't know of a hull plating layout or plan, but that doesn't mean that one doesn't exist somewhere.

You'll have to rely on dockyard photos and close-ups, I guess. Which is tough, because one can only see a small section of hull in each, and it's unlikely that there are photos for the entire hull of either Kongo or her sisters, collectively.

The 1/350 Aoshima (and possibly the Fujimi) kits have hull plating seam lines, IIRC.

I JUST found that page in my new copy of LaCroix & Wells (that didn’t cost me a Kidney).

I get the feeling that Haruna is going to have to get in line with the Nagara and Isuzu (and a couple of other IJN Cruisers, like Chōkai and Maya) for ships that I need to scratch-build the Bridge for a 1942 outfit.

The Nagara might get a pass, as the 1944 Tamiya Nagara can be easily back-dated to 1942, given that they make a 1942 outfit for the Nagara, but it is sold as a ship for an Anime that features the WWII IJN ships.

But the others are going to require either chopping at styrene, or getting-out the acid and brass sheets to make some PE for the Bridges.

Building some copies of the Nagara Bridge after I got a Styrene Cutter (to make better and more accurate cuts) I began to wonder about many Styrene parts, and why they use Injection Molding, rather than cutting the parts from sheet-stock, to be assembled around an armature to provide the “Structure” for a model (be it a ship, or a tank, or even some aircraft).

Because the thinner sheet styrene, like the brass PE parts, makes for a more accurate model. The rear deck parts of the 5,500t IJN CLs made me immediately wonder this after completing the first useable Nagara Bridge. The use of Sheet Styrene that was .01” thick provided a vast improvement over the part even in the more accurate Tamiya models.

After getting the LaCroix & Wells book, I noticed details in the photos that I didn’t notice on the photos posted to this cite, such as the upper deck on the back of the Nagara Bridge having the rear corners cut at what looks to be a 45º angle, cutting-off about 4’ to 6’ on each corner. AND that the Railing goes OUTSIDE of the Tripod Mast Supports. That and the underside of those decks having a bunch of perforated steel supports in a lattice, like under the ends of an IJN Carrier Deck, with some more “robust” such steel supports running to the Mast Legs.

But, thanks for reminding me that the Haruna got its Bridge Chopped-Down.

Having a digital copy of LaCroix & Wells is also going to come in handy (It came with the Physical Copy, that looks like someone spent a LOT of time scanning, and then cleaning-up, each page to produce a PDF).

MB

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OMG LOOK! A signature

Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16

Indeed it was.

I had long wondered why they were so concerned about the channel (slot) up the Solomons, and Savo Sound next to Guadalcanal.

Until I began working on a supplement for a Wargame (Advanced Squad Leader) that required buying some actual Maps of the Islands and the Oceans surrounding them that dated from Pre-WWII to 1945.

And I was shocked to see the Oceanographic Maps of that Area, both the “Pre-1941” Maps, AND the “Accurate” Post-War maps of the same waters.

The Pre-1941 Maps showed a LOT of water hazards in Savo Sound, AND in the rest of the Solomon Island Chain, where you might have a bottom that is 50 fathoms, only to have some gigantic outcropping of rock that shoots-up to a depth of 18’, before dropping back into an abyss.

And many of these could be a mile or more offshore.

I learned that the way rock erodes in water is very different than on land, and that you are more likely to get these rock massifs than you are on land. ESPECIALLY anywhere that Coral Grows, as the Coral tends to build-up on the harder Rock, thus creating a positive/negative-feedback effect upon the geological strata underwater (the Coral tends to remain on the harder rocks, as that on the softer rocks is more likely to have the rock beneath it fall off. Thus the harder rocks at track more coral, making them even harder in the process, and making them grow toward the surface).

Seeing the Pre-WWII Maps (most of which Dated to the 19th Century, if not earlier in the 18th Century) was scary enough looking.

But when I saw the Modern, accurate Oceanographic Survey Maps, I wondered how they managed to loose so few ships to collisions with submerged coral heads, or other navigational hazards that were not marked on the earlier maps (Oh! And then there is the “We are three miles inland” problem with many of the Maps. They had some Islands located several minutes away from the Lat-Long position. So while the coast of an Island in the chain might run SE to NW beginning at 8° 26' 43.1154" S, 157° 53' 48.984" E, the Maps will have it at 8° 20' 43.1154" S, 157° 55' 48.984" E.

Meaning you could run into it as it would be about 6 miles closer, if you were traveling SW from the NE, than the Map indicated.

That was a very risky move to send ships that were not just “Fat” in terms of their turning radius, but also that sat so deep in the water.

The Japanese ships tended to sit even deeper, given how overweight many were.

MB

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OMG LOOK! A signature

Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16

Available on line (somewhere) is Nimitz's war diary, a lot of not know well known operations are covered. One of the important ones was the wide ranging adventures of the USN Hydrographic vessel tasked with attempting to update charts as much as possible. I remember a story about a fleet boat traveling at speed on the surface at night and the skipper feeling spry in his face and ordering an emergency full astern. There were thousands of unmarked reefs and atolls and they just nudged into this one. Add in that they may not have had a good navigational fix in a while. The USS Darter was lost running up on a reef, her companion Dace was able to pull off her crew and pump a lot of 5" rounds into her.

I have somewhere in my library a volume on the PT operations which details the inshore operations of the boats, largely at night and the issues that even these shallow draft craft had with reefs and coral heads. I would guess that each fleet attempted to map past successful operation areas, a little like mapping a minefield. Aerial photography may hav also been used for areas of special interest, these clear waters would allow some information to be gleaned in this way.

Just an FYI:

The Aoshima retake version of Kongo was recently re-released, and the retake version of Kirishima is scheduled for re-release in April, 2023.

A circa 1942 chart of IBS shows the rather narrow entry / exits to the east, and other hazards that encircle the Sound.

_________________
“We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
“A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942

Best map of the approaches that I've ever seen. Thx for posting, Kevin.

And a companion piece so to speak. Enjoy.

_________________
“We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
“A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942

Most of the Pacific Ocean Areas was abysmally mapped. Thousands of unmapped atolls. One sub running along the surface at night and the OOD tastes sand grains and orders emergency astern. They just avoided impaling themselves on such an uncharted reef. Of course the vagaries of sun and star sights and DED Reckoning didn't help either. Another submarine searching out Wewak on New Guinea resorted to using a map in a National Geographic.

USS Sumner, AG 32 spent the war attempting to expand the hydrographic knowledge for the fleets employment. Nimitz "discovered" Ulithi in his map perusal, which later became an important advanced base in the Western Pacific.

As to committing fighting ships to unknown shoal waters, "When Needs Must, the Devil Drives".

Dan, thank you for the images of Ise and Hyuga posted over in the other thread. I've been back through this thread and seen the excellent bridge rendition of Haruna pre-war, a question: do you have any such renders or plans of Kongo pre-war? When her pagoda was a little taller?

I've got an idea that I might like to complete my Fujimi 1/350s as they looked sometime in the 1935-41 timeframe, and share the trials and tribulations of the kit bashes.

Haruna is the only sister with the unusually higher bridge. Kongo's bridge really did not change after her second modernization, save for things like adding radar, changing the main battery director deck to an AA command deck, wind baffles, some changes to AA and other equipment.