Calling all Chinese Ting Yuen (定远) ironclad battleship fans

[Kerry Jang]

Hello All,

Some years ago (late 1990's), myself and a few others from across the world developed a set of plans for this ship that were based on a number of sources and photographs from Stettin, Germany (now part of Poland) where the ships were built for the Imperial Navy.

The drawings were based on the lines of SMS Saschen (to get the hull lines), and we then drew up the rest from the photographs obtained from German archives, China (with help from colleauges at Hanzgzhou University), and Japan (with help from historians at Tokyo University), as well as drawings from period German and British secondary sources, such as Brassey's Naval Annual from the 1890's to the German equivalent, as well as Jane's. There were few Chinese sources of any use, most were copies of what could be had from other sources.

The drawings we did are necessarily a reconstruction as primary plans (e.g., shipyard drawings like you wuld get from places like the National Maritime Museum) were not available, though reputed to exist. On this, myself and my Polish friends have been trying to onbtain a copy from a fellow in Germany who claims to sell copies of the original prints but has yet to returns letters or e-mails, or calls...

Our drawings are done on 6 sheets, showing all GA's, lines, decks, and fittings, and shows the ships at 1) delivered to China, 2) her guise at the Battle of the Yalu (or what the Chinese call, the 1894 War - there is even an old Chinese movie of the battle), and Chen Yuen in Japanese service. They were researched by myself, John Tennier (who drew them in CAD), and Dirk Nottleman and were used as the basis for the Iron Shipwright resin kit of the "Ting Yuen".

I am mentioning them here to gauge interest from other modellers who may wish to obtain a copy to help building the model. Presently, the plans exist in a large scale (1:100 - as I wanted to do a large scale model), but an be reduced to 1:350. I am gauging interest as we would have to get an idea of what scales people would like and estimate print and post costs.

Our intention is to offer the plans at a nominal cost as a service to other modellers who are as interested in this facinating period of Chinese history as are we.

Warm regards,

Kerry

Dr. Kerry Jang
Vancouver, Canada
kerryjang@shaw.ca

[masch3]

Now that the Ting Yuen has been released by Bronco in 1/350, I guess it's time that we gave this ship her own thread. I have chosen the title so that we can include other Chinese ships from the same period as well, like the sister ship Chen Yuen.

One thing that would merit discussion are the different paint schemes of the Ting Yuen in her lifetime but also the replica currently on display in China.

The kit represents the ship in 1885 and 1894 with white or black turrets. However, I have seen the ship built with yellow (or buff) turrets too, most notably Kring' model in the gallery of this site.

So, anybody who has more info on the Ting Yuen and the Cheng Yuen, please feel free to share it with us here

[peppe]

some sites on ting yuen class
http://www.beiyang.org/bybq/zheny.htm
http://www.cityofart.net/bship/sino-jap.html#gallery
http://www.u-boot-net.de/phpBB/viewtopi ... =12&t=1916
some images from my collection from the net
ciao peppe

[aleccap]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4030/471 ... 6446_b.jpg
Always intrested in the old world battleships, my little Bronco effort above is based in 1885, even way back then modifications were being made to the superstructure, even though Ting Yuen was an armoured turret ship, a history of 10 years.
Just finished looking through what that German bloke has done, its just out of this world, I feel its best to stand back and realise this is a master builder, and therefore the work will naturally reflect this, so please let us not escape from the fact that not everyone has this ablity to build a work of art such as this. With everything said, the Ting Yuen is still scoring 11 out of 10 for just sheer WOW effect

[vincentcflau]

A new model maker in China has just released a 1/700 injestion kit of Ting Yuen. The kit come with brass guns and PE and is selling only CNY85 (~USD11) in the net.

The following is the link:
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=10871948183&

[Peter Rathgeb]

Hi all!

Nice new photo on beiyang.org - at least new for me, never seen this one before.

A colorized pic of either Ting Yuen or Chen Yuen entering Port Arthur docks:

The photo can be found here in higher resolution:

http://www.beiyang.org/09tz/09tz30.htm

Cheers,
Peter

[Peter Rathgeb]

I recently read again the Yankee of the Yalu by Lee McGiffin.

For all those who want to model Ting Yuen or Chen Yuen in their "Battle of the Yalu" rig, here some recollections of Capt. Philo McGiffin (who was on the Chen Yuen) from this book:

... Profiting by the lessons taught in the Tsi Yuen and Kwang Yih's hapless encounter with the enemy off Baker Island, Korea, on July 25, all boats were left behind, save one six oared gig for each vessel. In case of disaster, quarter was not expected nor was surrender contemplated. The fate of the ship was to be the fate of the crew.

The Tsi Yuen's boats had been shattered and set on fire almost immediately and had been extinguished only after much trouble and after they had been rendered totally unserviceable.

The heavy steel gunshields, one inch thick and over thirty feet in diameter which covered the two pairs of 30.5 centimeter (12.2 inch) Krupps on the ironclads were also removed. As they revolved with the guns a shot might easily jam them, and being too thin to keep out any but light machine gun missiles, they would have served only as man traps, since shells which might pass directly over the barbette and on when meeting no resistance, if intercepted by these shields, would have penetrated and, bursting, have filled the entire closed space with flame and fragments. Subsequent experience proved the wisdom of this removal, for many a shell passed close over the heads of the gunners.

All unnecessary woodwork, rigging etc. were taken away, the side wings of the bridge cut off, all hand rails and ladders removed, and rope or wire life lines and "Jacob's ladders" substituted when possible. The shields on the six inch guns, bow and stern, were kept on to protect the gun crews from the blast of the heavy guns when firing ahead or astern.

The ships had been painted an "invisible gray". Hammocks were placed as a small protection to the men at the quick firing guns, and within the superstructure sand bags were piled along the sides about three feet deep and four feet high. Lying inside of these on deck were kept some dozens of 100 pound shot and shell for the six inch guns to promote quick service. Much of the glass was unshipped; the rest the Japanese unshipped for us in time.

Coal in bags was also utilized for protection where possible. This protection by coal and sand bags served admirably, a number of projectiles and fragments having been found in them after the battle. When the bugles sounded "action" but little remained to be done save to lower to the deck the ventilators or wind sails (which obstructed the fire of the guns), to close scuttles, water tight doors, etc. and go to stations. ...

(later, immediately before the start of the battle:)

... Sand was sprinkled on the decks, and more was kept handy against the time when they might become slippery. ...

... Here and there a man lay flat on the deck, with a charge of powder - fifty pounds or more - in his arms, waiting to spring up and pass it on when it should be wanted. These men were stationed at intervals to serve the guns quickly; for charges must be massed along the deck, lest a Japanese shell drop in and make trouble.

I recommend the book to anyone interested in the Beiyang fleet.

Peter

[aleccap]

The above model in question is indeed the battleship in plastic and a scale of 1-700 not its big brother 1-350. At the moment I am doing my best to order and secure one of these models from China through the person called ''Lin'' as I said before not sure if this is their first or second name, the last I heard was it will be sent by ''China post'' which honestly doesn't tell me a great deal, the whisper and general feel I also got, was that this Chinese company will be producing many more scale models especially 1-700, the problem is everything is in (sorry) Chinese, but not Chinese can't remember what they wrote, they gave it some name that my computer translator can't clearly brake down into English.
For some time I have searched for a pre-dreadnought Chinese battleship that I should have brought at a model show 2/3 years ago, the box was tatty (can't remember the name of the ship) but the money was �20.00 + something pounds which at the time thought was to much money, so coming across something like this battleship in 1-700 with a possible of more to follow is great news as I do not model in resin.
I'll be posting here on this thread regardless of actually securing the model or not, as I am quite sure everyone will want to know about anything of this ''new'' 1-700 dreadnought.

[Jojo Janolo]

I'm planning to do IJN Chin'en (ex-Chen Yuen), in what color was she when integrated into the japanese fleet? Did Chin'En differ in a significant way in armament, masts etc versus as Chen Yuen? Thanks in advance!

[able]

[DariusP]

LOL very interesting "ship that never was" able!

[Timmy C]

The Battle of Yalu River might've ended very differently with Able's ship in the fleet!

[DariusP]

My thoughts precisely

[able]

[Christian M.]

Hello,

one question: Does / can anyone tell me from who is this Japanese battleship 3rd from above?

Another thing and why I post here and now:

The Chinese battleship Zhenyuan (also written Chen Yuen) was captured by Japan after Sino War and taken into Service as 2nd rate battleship. Are there any pictures of her exosoting, showing in Japanese Service or any sources available if there were changes made by Japan after taking her over into own service?

[able]

Kasuga

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=42708

[DariusP]

The Chinese battleship Zhenyuan (also written Chen Yuen) was captured by Japan after Sino War and taken into Service as 2nd rate battleship. Are there any pictures of her exosoting, showing in Japanese Service or any sources available if there were changes made by Japan after taking her over into own service?

There are Christian but, since I don't collect info about IJN Chin'en, I will need a while to trace them on the net again. This is just a teaser

[Timmy C]

There are a few posted on the Beiyang.org site:

[DariusP]

First and second photo show Chen Yuen after capture by the Japanese but before ship was modified Timmy. You might remember that she was captured in 1895 but modified in 1901. Third photo does show this ship after modifications but, because of the "bow on" angle, most of the details are hidden from view.

[peppe]

same image of the japanese version and two drawing, one original and the second modified
ciao peppe
if you need of more big resolution of photo or better drawing send a pm with email and i will send offline