Calling all Fletcher-class (DD-445) fans

[Rick E Davis]

I can't find where we discussed the configuration of JENKINS (DD-447) during Operation Torch in early November 1942 nor do I remember who asked. There are just too many pages in the "Calling all FLETCHER class Fans" forum and in the various FLETCHER builds for me to find it without spending the rest of the night looking for it. I have not found any photos of JENKINS at Operation Torch and couldn't answer the question with certainty at the time and made some "educated" guesses.

I wanted to know what did happen for the record and looked into JENKINS textual records on my last trip to NARA and found some interesting material.

After JENKINS was commissioned on 31 July 1942, she had three Availabilities at New York Navy Yard.

# 1. 30 July to 18 August 1942 ... delivered to USN and commissioned
# 2. 20 to 27 September 1942
# 3. 19 November to 2 December 1942

New York Navy Yard wrote a combined Departure Report for all three which can make figuring out when stuff was done. But, here was what I found from looking at all the records.

After yard period #1 JENKINS had a twin 40-mm mount and a Mk 51 director installed in that original high "tub" and went on shakedown and returned for post-shakedown repairs during yard period #2 prior going to North Africa. I had "assumed" that she got the fantail twin 40-mm mount installed during an Availability sometime during September, but she didn't. There wasn't enough time available. So she went to North Africa with the same single twin 40-mm mount and six 20-mm guns she left with after the first yard period. She apparently was repainted to Ms 22 at this time (repainting her camo ... not specified ... was directed by JENKINS CO).

After JENKINS returned from North Africa she went into yard period #3. This is where it gets interesting. JENKINS was suppose to have the original high 40-mm installation between 53 and 54 mounts lowered to the new standard and the fantail twin 40-mm mount installed like RADFORD. But, there wasn't enough time, so they installed the fantail twin 40-mm mount without lowering the other mount. In a big surprise to me, JENKINS had a Mk 49 director installed with her fantail twin 40-mm mount. She is the ONLY FLETCHER class destroyer I know of to have a Mk 49 installed in that location. New York Navy Yard objected, but JENKINS CO ordered it. I don't have a photo of JENKINS that clearly shows the fantail area, but I do have a November 1943 view that looks like there is a Mk 49 director still located there before her upgrade to ten 40-mm. Also at this time JENKINS had an elevated centerline platform installed before the bridge for a 20-mm gun. So when JENKINS went to the Pacific she had seven 20-mm guns as I suspected.

I don't know what camo JENKINS was painted in when she went to the Pacific, only that she ended up in Ms 21 eventually.

Well ... another unique configuration for the FLETCHER class.

[sundowner]

Hi I'm new to this forum but have been watching from the sidelines with great interest. I currently building the Revell 1/144 Fletcher class, but have not seclected which one yet, Want to do a round bridge version. Any Suggestions? I had thought of doing one of the destroyers that was in the battle of Kolombangara with my great uncles ship HMNZ Leander.
Anyway So much info on here to digest...
Might start a WIP thread if anyone is interested.

[Rick E Davis]

The Revell 1/144 scale FLETCHER class kit is kind of limited out-of-the box as to which ships you can build. The kit only has the bridge for the original enclosed pilothouse (called Round-bridge by most) and has the configuration for FLETCHER (DD-445), RADFORD (DD-446), JENKINS (DD-447) and La VALLETTE (DD=448) as built/delivered/completed. These ships had initially a single twin 40-mm mount in the original high "tub" between the 53 and 54 mounts and six 20-mm guns. However, before going to the South Pacific, these ships had a second twin 40-mm mount added to the fantail. The Revell kit does not include this fantail mount. Plus RADFORD had her high tub lowered to the new standard configuration. The first three FLETCHERS built at Bath Iron Works (BIW) ... NICHOLAS (DD-449), O'BANNON (DD-450), and CHEVALIER (DD-451) ... also had the high tub, but they were equipped with a quad 1.1-in mount, including during the Battle of Kolombangara. The Revell kit doesn't include this weapon. I believe one or more aftermarket firms were going to produce this mount.

But, since you narrowed it down to destroyers at the Battle of Kolombangara it makes it easier for me to list the most likely "candidates" without having to make major alterations to the kit. The following destroyers from the above group were involved.

NICHOLAS (DD-449) ... one quad 1.1-in mount, ten 20-mm guns (two before the bridge on 01 level, one atop the pilothouse, two P/S on main deck amidships, three on the fantail)

O'BANNON (DD-450) ... one quad 1.1-in mount, ten 20-mm guns (same as NICHOLAS)

JENKINS (DD-447) ... two twin 20-mm mounts (one on fantail), eight 20-mm guns (two before the bridge at 01 level, one on an elevated platform before the bridge on the centerline, one atop the pilothouse, and two P/S on main deck amidships)

Basically to accurately model any of these three from the Revell kit, you will need to add 20-mm guns ... which are available aftermarket ... and either:

for JENKINS get a second twin 40-mm mount for a fantail location and hand-make a Mk 49 director as well (she had a Mk 51 director for the elevated 40-mm mount which is in the kit) and make an elevated platform forward of the bridge, or

for NICHOLAS or O'BANNON find or make a 1.1-in mount in 1/144 scale and do some other minor mods for the fantail 20-mm installations.

Once you make a choice, I can point you to images to help you with that ship or provide you what you need. If a quad 1.1-in mount is available in this scale, then I think that would be the easiest way to go (simply replace the twin 40-mm with a quad 1.1-in mount). In 1/350 scale, the Tamiya kit is a lot closer to the desired configurations and quad 1.1-in mounts are available in that scale from other kits or aftermarket.

[sundowner]

Thanks so much for the information. Like always you go the extra mile for people on here.
I'm thinking that the Jenkins might be good one, but do you have any plan or anything as a guide for scratchbuilding the centerline 20mm position? I imagine that there was also a ladder from the 01 position to this level? I know what you mean about the 1/144 fletcher it is kind of strange the they limited it to the early builds. The main reason I chose this one is that I'm also making it into an R/C Model as well. I also have the Eduard Detail set [suited my budget more]
and will get the other goodies to modify it.
I presume to that if I get the Nautilus Models Gun Tub set I can use that for the stern mount?

[Rick E Davis]

I'm not sure which tub the Nautilus "Gun Tub" you are looking at ... the fantail or the lowered tub between 53 and 54 mounts. I have not looked at what they have in person. In looking at their website this is the one you will need ... 144-021 USS Fletcher 40mm Twin Stern Tub

The fantail tub was more elongated to give clearance between the director and for the 40-mm mount to fully rotate.

On page 40 of this thread there is a photo of JENKINS and plans for an elevated platform (BIW/Boston Navy Yard). There are some differences in the platforms installed, JENKINS platform looks to have the access opening on the port side with a ladder up the face of the bridge. I associate this version with New York Navy Yard. The front corners also appear to be more full radius than the BIW/Boston Navy Yard version shown in the plan. In either case the platform is a fairly straight forward build. Somewhere there are close-up images of SIGSBEE posted here that shows a typical "New York Navy Yard" platform. The Boston version had an access "hole" through the bottom of the platform with its own ladder. But I think both platform were the same length fore to aft and the same width.

The Mk 49 director looked kind of like R2D2 ... or like some domed top trashcans I have seen. About six foot tall depending on how high of a riser they are mounted on and six feet in diameter.

[sundowner]

Thanks for the info, I knew I had seen those plans before but this thread is so huge now I'll post a longer reply later.

[proflooney]

Ok Someone splain somthin to me. I have the microfilm reels for the Bath Shipyards and I am trying to layout the main deck superstructure. I have finally decided to do the USS Nicolas DD 449 for my project.

I look at the drawings trying to find the dimensions etc for placements and have come across a snag. I have 4 turret locations marked from the drawings until I figure out which ones were used. I am showing plan view of Super Deck for the bow starting at frame 42 and ending at frame 50 . the problem is from the other drawings it is showing 2 turret locations there. and in this drawing it shows 1 turret centered. Am I to assume it is yet another configuration and I need to choose which one my ship used?

I just wished can find good outlines and dimensions on these reels for the superstructure layout but they seemed to love to cram everything together and I think im gonna have to guess


Joe

[Rick E Davis]

Joe,

I don't know what area of the drawings you are referring to. You do have the drawings from the BIW FLETCHER CLASS ENGINEERING DRAWINGS DVD? You will either need to specify a specific page or post a small view. All WWII FLETCHERS had one 5-in mount on the main deck and one on the 01 deck ... both on the centerline ... in the same locations for all FLETCHERS that I'm aware of. Are you confusing 20-mm and/or 40-mm mount locations on the 01 deck level?

[proflooney]

This one has 5 turrets on it. the main problem I am having is figuring out the main deck superstructure outlines. I got the turrets figured out last night.

[BCBilly]

This one has 5 turrets on it. the main problem I am having is figuring out the main deck superstructure outlines. I got the turrets figured out last night.

Looks like a Lindbergh Blue Devil Kit.

[Rick E Davis]

Please ... whatever you do ... DON'T USE THAT MODEL AS BEING REPRESENTATIVE of NICHOLAS ... or for that matter ANY FLETCHER ... at any point in her career. The Blue Devil is one of the worse kits ever made.

On the BIW FLETCHER Class DVD ... the main deck layout is Dwg # 401695T for the first three FLETCHERS built at BIW (DD-449, 450, and 451). On the DVD these are in file 5541-1/frame 105/filenames 370, 371, 372 and 373 (TIFF files). Other higher decks are in frames 103 and 104, files 365-369.

[proflooney]

added a picture of a model i found last night. as you can see theres 2 turrets on the bow one in the middle and 2 aft.

the sheet I am looking at is from folder 5544-1 pics 41, 42, 43 for the profile view

[proflooney]

yea wasnt using it as reference but got it as it showed the approx locations of the turrets which i figured would help me find the drawings. that model doesnt even have a skeg rofl i saw that right away and the hull looks too fat

[Rick E Davis]

I'm really confused ... are you asking about PROFILE views of the superstructure or PLAN views (looking down on the deck)? These "overall" views are kind of like assembly drawings (I use to be a draftsman some 35-40 years ago) and don't have detailed dimensions on them. These drawings do reference the frame numbers, which are I think are 21-in. For specific dimensions, you would need to track down the individual component/subassembly drawings. The DVD is difficult to navigate ... I printed out the index online at DestroyerHistory.org and have made notes as I looked through the whole disk for files I was interested in. You likely could get by by scaling from the Profile and Plan views. Cross check with available photos.

[proflooney]

no I was using the profile views to find the layout because I had found several diff drawings and using the frames marked them out. what confused me til this morning is that I miscalculated a dimension so number 2 turret which was on a structure above turret 1 was showing turret 1 and 2 on the same structure. so was a mistake on my part (prob for doing it at 3 am lol) that got me confused. that solved I been trying to read the various drawings to find the accurate superstructure outlines, but am getting lost as looks like they show everything on top of the drawings. stuff from the upper platform structures to the antiskid paint layout on the main deck.

I started with the individual drawings to layout all the main turrets now trying to figure out the main superstructure. so you were correct wherer you were pointing me at least until i look here in a minute to verify but sounds like you were sending me where I was asking.

I am a millwright and have spent a lot of time reading blueprints but am totally lost here as I am new to ships stuff and 2 they are a lot less labelled than i am used to. I guess you have to be a ship builder to understand which lines are which lol

Joe

[proflooney]

I also have gone through the disks and pulled out the files I found that I was looking for so we are on the same track but like just posted I am having a little problem in following the plan view as to which lines are which. I pulled them into my 2D cad prog and am tracing the outlines as best I can to figure them out from there

[proflooney]

I just looked up those drawings Rick those are the ones I was using to trace. so we on the same wavelength here

[proflooney]

Here is the outlines I came up with for the aft portion. I am thinking that outer red area is the deck on top of the main deck superstructure, green is main deck superstructure, and blue is upper deck superstructure. though not for sure on the full shape of the blue stuff.

[proflooney]

ok midships. it didnt show good over the plans so moved it off. the green is what I come up with for the main deck superstructure, red for the deck on top of it and the blue for next level superstructures.

if anyone sees something wrong with these pls point them out so I can adjust them properly

[Rick E Davis]

The 20-mm guns are on the main deck and there is a bulwark on main deck going out to the hull edge.

BIW Engineering Drawing TIFF images 365 and 366 show the superstructure deck at 01 level.